Taken from the Winter 2020 issue. Pre-order your copy now.

11 years ago, the world was formally introduced to Kid Cudi with his debut album, Man on the Moon: The End of Day. While there was already a buzz building around him — both for his first mixtape A Kid Named Cudi and his work on Kanye West’s 808s & Heartbreak — no one had foretold the disruptive impact the record would have. Living up to its grandiose title, Man on the Moon established Scott Mescudi’s own psychedelic space in the music industry and, retrospectively, reshaped the perimeters of rap.

Merging haunting melodies with trippy samples and experimental production, Mescudi’s sound was innovative and immersive, challenging the standard of hip-hop that had dominated the 00s. Lyrically he pushed boundaries too, with unfiltered introspection that dealt honestly, but optimistically, with themes from isolation and alienation to insecurity and rage.

After kickstarting the decade with follow-up album Man on the Moon II: The Legend of Mr. Rager, over the past 10 years we’ve got to know Mescudi as a multifaceted artist outside of his output as Kid Cudi. Musically, he’s evolved his sound across a number of records and joined forces with friends and collaborators, forming rock-leaning band WZRD with Dot da Genius in 2010, Kids See Ghosts with Kanye West in 2018 and THE SCOTTS with Travis Scott this year — whose eponymous debut track gave the artist his first No. 1 single.

After his first on-screen appearance in 2010’s How to Make It in America (playing a character HBO asked him to create), Mescudi has established himself as an actor too, most recently starring in Luca Guadagnino’s heady coming-of-age series We Are Who We Are. Reaping the rewards of the respect he’s earned in Hollywood, his current projects include executive producing Sam Levinson’s highly-anticipated film Malcolm & Marie (Zendaya, John David Washington), a role in Adam McKay’s Don’t Look Up (alongside Leonardo DiCaprio, Jennifer Lawrence, Timothée Chalamet), and his newly-launched production company, MAD SOLAR.

But first, a full-circle moment to see out 2020: the long-awaited arrival of Man on the Moon III. Put together unexpectedly over a number of weeks in quarantine, Mescudi says the project, like its previous counterparts, paints a picture of the inner workings of his mind at the time. Merging the signature Kid Cudi sound with new perspectives both musically and lyrically, it feels like a fitting bookend to the trilogy whilst looking firmly to a new dimension of the Scott Mescudi universe.

Speaking to his friend and early album confidant John David Washington, he speaks about his creative process for the trilogy and why 2020 finally felt like the right time to complete it, the value of feedback from the likes of Shia LaBeouf and Timothée Chalamet, and why it ultimately represents his survival.

JDW: I’m so excited to be talking to you now. Just being a true fan, I want to back up even before this new album — how was the concept of Man on the Moon conceived? And was it always your intention to tell it within three albums?
SM: The whole Man on the Moon theme came to me after I saw Jim Carrey in the movie Man on the Moon, about Andy Kaufman. I felt that his approach to comedy was like my approach to music — this unfiltered, could be disturbing type of shit, you know? Shit that really fucked with the census, fucked with the people. So I ran with that. And I remember in kindergarten, my teacher took us to the planetarium and I was obsessed with the stars. That whole experience really rattled my soul, so since I was a kid I’ve always been obsessed with the planets and astrology. With the first album, I was like ‘How can I make this a real personal opus? How can I really put the Scott Mescudi DNA all through this shit?’ And I thought I am a spacey dude — I was smoking weed like every day writing music, so I was this lonely stoner. I put it all together and was like ‘Man, I feel like I am on the moon, away from the world, in space’. After I did that, I was thinking about how would I wrap this off as a sequel. How could I miss the sophomore slump? That whole curse of the second album being terrible and not as good as the first. So I had this idea: I want to do a trilogy. I feel like it needs to be what I’m dealing with right now, and the next year what I’m dealing with then, and the year after what I’m dealing with then. Hopefully there’ll be some type of arch, a story that would take people on a ride. I was writing my life, I was literally living it and writing it down. All the Mr. Rager stuff, the darker shit, that wasn’t me creating some character and being witty. That was me trying to explain what I was feeling at the time.

JDW: I’m so glad you’re sharing that with all of us, because that’s what resonated with me: the honesty in your albums. […] I hate watching myself on screen, so knowing that a movie I’m in is about to come out terrifies the hell out of me. Do you find that happening right before a release?
SM: I think there’s always a little fear, but that’s the excitement about the whole thing. It’s like if I’m not scared of it, then I did something wrong.

JDW: That makes sense to me.
SM: Being scared is a good feeling, and it took me years to know that. With my first album, I was scared shitless. I couldn’t sleep for the three nights before the album came out.

JDW: There was no sound like yours before this too.
SM: That made it even more intense! Usually, most of these kids have some shit to lean on. It’s like ‘Oh, this sounds like this guy’. Literally, I was coming out the gate sounding like nobody and my shit was very different and psychedelic and strange. I know that. And the climate of hip-hop at that time was pretty much 99.9% gangsta rap. I’ve got a song like “Pursuit of Happiness” man… I was like ‘The hood ain’t gonna fuck with this shit!’ I was really nervous. But then you see what happens and you see how people embrace it. So that was a real teachable moment where I learned being scared, that means I’m on the right track.

JDW: Amen. So thinking about that time, you clash, of so much pain, sorrow, and yet there’s always hope introduced in your songs. Thinking about now — what we’ve all been waiting for, Man on the Moon III — is that still in there? Is this like ‘OK people, I’ve made it, this is where I wanted to end up’? Or is it ‘This is where I am now’?
SM: I think it’s really dope that you pointed that out, because that’s always been my thing. I think there’s only one song that I’ve ever written where it was completely sad and there was no hope, and that was “All Along”. That’s a song that I can’t perform to this day because it’s such a downer. It’s just hard for me to sing that, [lyrics] like “I guess I’m meant to be alone”. There was no light at the end of the tunnel, that was it. Now I’m 36, all these years later, I don’t feel that way anymore. I do like to always have the light at the end of the tunnel because I know kids need that hope, and this album will be no different. One of the things that I wanted to do was bring more energy. That was something that I’m sure you noticed on this album that was really different from the last two — it moved a lot quicker. But it’s still one hell of a ride as far as the emotion and the experience and the melodies. All the things that people have come to love of Kid Cudi for the past 10, 11 years.

JDW: That was my experience when listening to it. It felt like everything we love about what you do. The people that have just been lis- tening for so long, and even some of the new fans within the past five years, are gonna enjoy, sonically, what we’re experiencing. But to me, I was really keying in on what you’re doing lyrically. I think it is extremely mature, and by that I mean it seems like you were setting a personal challenge of cutting in lyrically.
SM: Man, I appreciate you. That was definitely something that I was aiming for. I always like to think ‘With this project, what could I do new that I haven’t really done before?’ It’s been a long time since I’ve done an album where it’s been almost 90% bars, just rapid. And Kid Cudi rap is melodic, but there’s a fusion there. There’s some songs where there’s no melody in the rap and there’s some songs where there’s a hybrid, where it’s a little bit of both, and there’s some songs where it’s my classic Cudi shit.

JDW: For fans out there, it’s just exciting that it seems like a completion of this idea of Man on the Moon. To me, as an actor, I just love when we’re able to show range — when we’re able to show that we can be funny, we can be serious, we can be damn near depressed, we can be the most jovial like preacher, religious person. Whatever it is, we’re really playing these characters. The difference though is that this is your real life, you know? You’re showing your different colours, and you’re also being able to do this differently musically. I really appreciate that. […] Going over all of your work and where you are now in your life, with this album Man on the Moon III, do you think much about the legacy you’ve created? What do you want that legacy to be?

SM: I hope that it’s OK to say I do think about my legacy. And that’s why I make some choices now in my adulthood, because I’m thinking about the kids and how shit may affect them. I think about all the mistakes and all the things I’ve been through… I want to be a role model now, more than ever. Back then, when I was doing Mr. Rager shit, I was kind of just like ‘Fuck it’. Because I’m young, you know? It was all rage. But now it’s like I want people to know that I’m here for good and that I’ve always wanted to help people. I have problems and I’m human, and people know I’ve been going through it. But we survive, and I want people to know that I’m a survivor. We still deal with shit; even with this new album you’ll see that there’s things I’m still dealing with, but we get through. I’m talking to you today, I feel fucking great.
JDW: You look good, man. I love how you said you survive, and this album, I guess you’re embodying that. ‘Cause if you’re talking about the journey of Man on the Moon, in some songs, some instances, you’re not sure. Even though you introduce hope a lot, you don’t know.

SM: Right
JDW: And now you’re saying, at this point in your life, with this album when it drops: I’ve survived. And that almost feels like you’re taking responsibility. That’s a mature thing.

SM: I think that’s something I’ve learned, and I credit women in my life teaching me that.
JDW: Like who?

SM: I think my ex, really, is one of the main people that taught me that — that I have to own up and take responsibility for things. I thought I made all these changes, but I still had a lot of stuff to work on. It didn’t work out with us; it wasn’t her fault, it was me. So yeah, I’m still learning. I’m 36. I’m open to growing. I want to grow.
JDW: What are your hopes for the industry and our world going into next year?

SM: I just want to see us come together a little bit more. I want to see a little bit more unity and a lot more love. I want to see more Black stories, I feel like we need that. I was just in a situation where there was this movie that I really wanted to do but I didn’t have the time, but it was this really stellar, all-Black cast. And I was like ‘Man, this is the shit I want to be a part of’. That’s the whole shit with my production company, and we can get into that too. But that’s one of my priorities, to find more Black storytellers.

JDW: These are the kind of opportunities you’re looking to create — more people of colour, collaborative environments, and telling our shit, telling our stories?
SM: Yeah, and also to have a hub, a place where I can develop my own stuff for me to do as an actor. […] Now I’m in a position where I can develop a book, I can develop a script with a friend, with Shia [LaBeouf]. We can write the movie and get it made in a couple months. All these things are at my fingertips now and I can actually do things and I have money behind me.

JDW: And the right collaborators to help get it done, right?
SM: Yeah, exactly. I think this partnership with BRON [studios] is a big first step. We also have this movie we start shooting next year, it’s called X. Ti West is directing it and we’re doing that with A24. That’s our first, and I’m a big horror fan so this is dope. This is my first horror movie.

JDW: I’m looking forward to that… This has been a time of reflection — 2020 has been wild, as you know. What have been the most signifi- cant takeaways in 2020 for you?
SM: Just being with myself and being OK with being alone was a big thing for me, not being able to distract myself by going out and do- ing things. It helped me get more back into my center and figure out what Scott needs to be happy — whether it’s working out, or whatever. Even having my friends come over and we just shoot the shit for a little bit and play Xbox. But most of the time I’m alone, and I had to just deal with that and be OK with that. It was cool; it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was gonna be, because I am someone who really hated being alone and I know a lot of people out there feel that way. I thought this whole pandemic was gonna be really hard for me, but I ended up making a fucking album in weeks.

JDW: Wait a minute, hold on — this album, Man on the Moon III, this was all done in quarantine? Wow. And everything you said with that that went into it — being alone and all these things that you found in your life that was happening — it just poured into the tracks?
SM: Yeah, and I was dealing with a lot. I was going through some personal issues and I just threw myself into the music and wrote my heart out. That’s one of the reasons why I haven’t done Man on the Moon III for so long, because I was like ‘There’s no way kids are going to honour this. They’re going to think it’s not as good as the first two, and the only angle I have is to make a really positive album’. And I don’t real- ly think that’s dope, I don’t want to make some cheesy fucking positive album, you know? So I was downplaying it, like ‘I’ll just do these two and that will just be it’. But dealing with things all over again, then I was writing songs that wasn’t for Enter- galactic and it wasn’t for THE SCOTTS. It was some other shit, and after I made like three songs I was like ‘Yo, I’m making Man on the Moon III. This is it’.

JDW: That’s so crazy, man. That’s got to feel good too when you’re in a flow like that. It sounds like once you got it going, you knew exactly what you were doing. […] You know how I feel about you, just being an artist, and I know there’s other artists out there — like Shia, like Timothée [Chalamet] — who really respect you. When you get feedback from a Shia or a Timothée, do you like that? Does that motivate you?
SM: Yeah, it’s really dope. These are guys that are masters at their craft, so to get any slither of advice from these two is priceless. Me and Shia, we’ve known each other for years, it’s been about 10 years now. And Timmy’s a new friend, but I have this real bond with them. The Kid Cudi shit is very distant — I mean it’s more present with me and Timmy ‘cause Timmy and me met at a different time, when he was young and I helped him up during a moment when he needed it. It really connects with him in a different way. I’ll call him and play him music and get his opinion — I watch him on FaceTime; I watch his whole shit and watch him go through the motions, him closing his eyes, feeling it, and I gauge his reaction. There’s some songs that I play Timothée where he’ll be like ‘That’s cool, that’s cool’, and there’s some songs where he’ll be like ‘Holy shit! Holy shit! Yo, play that back!’ And same thing with Shia. Shia sits there and gives me the truth too.

JDW: You need people like that in your circle, I think that shit’s important.
SM: That’s why I love Shia, and that’s why playing him this new music was really important. Same with you. I really needed to know you guys’ opinion, because this is the most im- portant album of my career thus far.

JDW: There it is, you said it. Break that down, why?
SM: It’s 10 years of anticipation for this album. If this album fails, if this sucks, I’m over! I’m gonna go live on an island somewhere…

JDW: I cannot wait for the masses to experience this, man. It is an incredible piece of work. It’s mature, it’s informative, it really took me back to moments of my life that you were heavy in my life with your music. I just love what you said: you’ve survived. I love that. Because that’s, in some ways, how I feel like a lot of my life. Where I’m at right now, it feels like I survived in my “Pursuit of Happiness”, if I will… And it comes off. This album comes off that way. It’s a beautiful piece of work. I’m so proud of you.