{"id":18832,"date":"2013-05-16T22:21:49","date_gmt":"2013-05-16T22:21:49","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.wonderlandmagazine.com\/?p=18832"},"modified":"2013-08-05T11:01:57","modified_gmt":"2013-08-05T11:01:57","slug":"flashback-friday-ben-whishaw","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.wonderlandmagazine.com\/2013\/05\/16\/flashback-friday-ben-whishaw\/","title":{"rendered":"Flashback Friday: Ben Whishaw"},"content":{"rendered":"

In this interview from the archives, a pre-fame Ben Whishaw talks Keats, Jane Campion and his unexpectedly “humiliating” cameo as a witch in His Dark Materials.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

\"Ben<\/a><\/center><\/p>\n

This interview was first published in Wonderland Nov\/Dec 2009.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Trailing his publicist across the outdoor terrace of a smart Toronto hotel, Ben Whishaw could easily be mistaken for the skinny, waifish frontman of a cool new indie band rather than one of Britain\u2019s finest young actors. The city\u2019s flashy film festival is in full swing and, with Whishaw embarking on the North American leg of his Bright Star tour (he plays celebrated 19th-century Romantic poet John Keats in Jane Campion\u2019s film), it\u2019s been established as our ideal meeting place.<\/p>\n

The long-limbed actor greets me with a warm smile and light handshake, saying he just passed Terry Gilliam on his way in. Hair styled in dark, artful swoops, framing a face highlighted by intense, emotive eyes and near-flawless skin, Whishaw\u2019s more strikingly handsome in person than he appears on screen, although since he\u2019s usually portraying individuals locked in some degree of anguish, perhaps that\u2019s to be expected. He\u2019s wearing a dark leather jacket that tapers to stretchy rib-knit fabric around his wrists and neck, which he keeps zipped up to the very top during our hour-long conversation (it\u2019s not cold) like a protective shield.<\/p>\n

Ordering black coffee, he\u2019s sedate and contained although he insists his life is ruled by nervous energy (and he does fiddle with a chocolate wrapping paper like a crinkly stress reliever). He\u2019s also convivial, thoughtful, grins a lot\u2026 and more than once deflects a query that might penetrate too far into his privacy. (When asked about his twin brother James, Whishaw tells me he \u201cdoes something with finance but he\u2019s on his own journey which I can\u2019t go into\u201d.) I get the sense that everything Ben Whishaw wants to reveal about himself lies on screen in his intuitive and often remarkable performances \u2013 and he\u2019d rather let them do all the talking.<\/p>\n

The 28-year-old actor has already played several substantial and substantive roles. On stage, upon graduating from RADA in 2004, he waltzed straight into Trevor Nunn\u2019s Old Vic production of Hamlet, sparking critical raptures for his haunting performance; on film, he stepped into the global limelight as scent-obsessed killer Grenouille in Perfume: The Story Of A Murderer, before delivering his incarnation of Bob Dylan in Todd Haynes\u2019s I\u2019m Not There and pouting aristocrat Sebastian Flyte in last year\u2019s Brideshead Revisited.<\/p>\n

As Keats, Whishaw is a fragile, bedridden hero forging a romantic (and ultimately tragic) bond with Abbie Cornish\u2019s Fanny Brawne \u2013 literally the girl next door. It\u2019s another role that draws deeply from the well of Whishaw\u2019s sensual, compelling charisma \u2013 and although the actor admits he wanted more of the poet\u2019s passionate anger to come through, he ultimately embraced Campion\u2019s vision.<\/p>\n

On the horizon he\u2019s playing wayward sprite Ariel in Julie Taymor\u2019s The Tempest and is waiting to hear whether Kill Your Darlings, a Beat-poets biopic (he\u2019s due to play Lucien Carr), finds its money. Taymor also approached Ben about playing Peter Parker in her Spider-Man musical on Broadway, but he declined claiming his singing voice wasn\u2019t strong enough \u2013 although you suspect it\u2019s not the sort of role he\u2019d ever relish playing. For now, though, there are several more Star turns to put in, as Whishaw prepares to head to New York and LA as soon as the Toronto gig finishes. \u201cI\u2019m doing a bit of a slog,\u201d he proclaims. \u201cBut it\u2019s all good…\u201d<\/p>\n

\"Ben<\/a><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve spoken to actors who say that Jane Campion really puts you through the ringer before deciding if you\u2019re right for a role. Did she do that to you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019d heard that too, that she\u2019d have to see you quite a few times before she\u2019d make up her mind. But I did one audition that was an hour long. I actually didn\u2019t think that I\u2019d got the part. I thought that Jane was much more interested in the actress I was auditioning opposite. So I just thought, \u201cOh, I\u2019m here really just to deliver lines.\u201d I decided that that\u2019s what was going on quite early on in the audition and then just relaxed because I thought, \u2018Okay, this is not gonna happen.\u2019 [Laughs] I was really surprised when it did…<\/p>\n

So Abbie Cornish wasn\u2019t the actress you auditioned with…<\/strong><\/p>\n

No, we got cast separately. You would have thought that Jane would want to see if there was the possibility of any chemistry between us. But she didn\u2019t. I think that says a lot about Jane. She has intuitions about people that are uncanny. If anything, she seemed to take pains to keep us apart for a long time. We only met on the first day of rehearsal.<\/p>\n

Did you immerse yourself in Keats?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I got interested even beyond the part. I read lots of things that were not of much relevance to the film but I just became very, very interested in him and in that period and how his work\u2019s been perceived through the ages. I had a desk piled with Keats\u2019 books of one kind or another.<\/p>\n

Did you plough your way through his work?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, and some of them are, uh… He wrote this very strange piece called The Cap And The Bells not long before he died, which is very difficult to read! [Laughs] He was really sporadic. He\u2019d have a flash of some genius and then he\u2019d write something eccentrically bad, in my opinion. His best work seemed to be the stuff he dismissed himself, not thinking it was worth very much, and the work that he toiled over is the stuff that\u2019s sort of been forgotten.<\/p>\n

What marked out the bad stuff?<\/strong><\/p>\n

You can tell that he\u2019s trying to be a bit like Shakespeare. He\u2019s not being true to himself. That\u2019s my impression. But the amount he wrote in such a short life is utterly mind-boggling. He was living life at a real pitch. And he was surrounded by death. I\u2019m sure in some sub-conscious place he knew he wasn\u2019t going to live to be an old man.<\/p>\n

What was your favourite Keats poem?<\/strong><\/p>\n

The one I love best is Ode To A Nightingale. I was just looking at it again this morning because when I was at Cannes I got asked to recite poetry on the spot and I crumbled under the pressure. So I was in the shower this morning and I thought, \u201cI\u2019d better refresh some poetry\u201d. So I was re-reading Ode To A Nightingale and it seemed to be a different poem to the one I remember, you know? I think all great work does that \u2013 it changes as you change or you change with it, or whatever happens.<\/p>\n

Do you always do heavy research into a character? Is it something you need to get under the skin of your character?<\/strong><\/p>\n

It depends on what it is. Sometimes I like to go on pure instinct for something. Sometimes it\u2019s essential to get the facts right.<\/p>\n

\"Ben<\/a><\/p>\n

What roles have you played on instinct alone? The killer in Perfume, perhaps?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah, I guess. It\u2019s funny, research. People mean lots of different things by it. I started to do a part about fence builders [in Pawel Pawilkowski\u2019s abandoned The Restraint Of Beast] and we all went and became fence builders. That\u2019s one kind of research. But there\u2019s another kind where you can draw on anything to help you, like a painting or a piece of music… You open yourself up to everything and it\u2019s interesting what becomes useful to you in the portrayal.<\/p>\n

Do you like directors to instruct you what to look at? <\/strong><\/p>\n

I love that. Todd Haynes gave everyone quite specific material to look at and listen to on I\u2019m Not There. He gave me an audiotape of the San Francisco 65-66 interviews \u2013 God, Dylan was such a genius interviewee. But Todd\u2019s beautiful also because then he just left us to get on with it. We didn\u2019t rehearse at all; I just turned up and did it.<\/p>\n

How was your experience of making Bright Star? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Jane spent a lot of time just encouraging me to relax… [laughs] sort of stroking me and just sitting with me. \u2018Just nice and relaxed\u2019 \u2013 that\u2019s what she kept saying to me.<\/p>\n

Did you feel on edge?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I have a fair amount of nervousness that sometimes is useful and sometimes is not. I don\u2019t think he\u2019s a nervous character \u2013 in the way that I\u2019m nervous, anyway \u2013 so it was getting rid of something that was blocking us.<\/p>\n

Did you and Abbie keep your distance once you met?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah, we did. Not intentionally. We were very supportive of each other and we\u2019d share cigarettes together. In rehearsal Jane wanted us to bring in a love offering every day, like a letter, a poem, a flower… we had to express our love for each other as often as we could through some sort of gift so that fostered an attitude between us. I\u2019ve still got a CD Abbie made me. But we were also pretty private and I think that was good. It\u2019s just the way it worked out but it wasn\u2019t complicated by anything else.<\/p>\n

Does it depend on the character you\u2019re playing how close you get to your co-stars?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah. It depends on the other actor too.<\/p>\n

Didn\u2019t you and Matthew Goode become good friends making Brideshead Revisited?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve not seen Matthew for a long time but, yeah, I am good friends with him.<\/p>\n

What were you like making that film?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I was pretty tense actually! [Laughs] It was one of those shoots where there seemed to be a lot against us. It was the wettest summer in England, ever. Then I was supposed to be in a motor car but they had to give the motor car back so that had to be cut. I remember it being quite fraught but not unhappy. Lots of fun with Emma Thompson. She\u2019s a great bringer-together-er of people. She\u2019s one of my strongest memories of making that film.<\/p>\n

\"Ben<\/a><\/p>\n

Brideshead got battered by the critics. Had you harboured any doubts before saying yes about playing a role as iconic as Sebastian Flyte?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Rightly or wrongly, I didn\u2019t really. I loved the part and I thought I could bring something to it, which is all I ever go on. But it\u2019s very hard to adapt things when your audience has a memory of something which they adore. They don\u2019t want something to get in the way of that memory. Maybe it\u2019s an interesting movie for another generation… I\u2019ve noticed that a lot of teenage girls really love Sebastian. I\u2019ve had quite a few 15\/16 year olds stop me in the street.<\/p>\n

Maybe they identify with Sebastian\u2019s awkwardness…<\/strong><\/p>\n

I think so. And the feeling that he\u2019s rebelling against his mother.<\/p>\n

Your version made the gay relationship between Sebastian and Charles more overt than the book or the TV version. Was that a good idea?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, I think it was good for the story. It\u2019s so frustrating because the novel is so full of incident and can linger on things; it\u2019s incredibly subtle and fine. Which of course you can achieve over 15 weeks of a television series quite beautifully. You need to make a strong decision about something in the condensing down so I thought it was a good thing to make it more overt. But maybe some of the ambiguity and the richness of the novel was lost in the process.<\/p>\n

Did you and Matthew ever hold a Brideshead post-mortem?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No, we never have. Well, sort of… you always have a time of reflecting on what you\u2019ve done and you\u2019re never happy \u2013 at least I\u2019m not happy with what I\u2019ve done. I tend just to forget about it once it\u2019s done and then you move onto the next thing knowing it was an utter failure. But there you go. [laughs] I think it\u2019s a healthy thing. It keeps you moving on.<\/p>\n

Is it coincidence that you\u2019ve appeared in three films with Daniel Craig or are you friends? You made The Trench, your very first film, then Layer Cake and Enduring Love…<\/strong><\/p>\n

Oh God, I was so young. I don\u2019t know Daniel Craig at all. It\u2019s purely coincidence. I don\u2019t think he would even remember me. We barely exchanged a conversation, particularly on the first film. I think I was about 17 and really, really timid, really shy. I don\u2019t think I spoke to him. I was too frightened…<\/p>\n

And by the time you got to Enduring Love?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A little bit, maybe. [laughs]<\/p>\n

Many of the characters you play are intense types \u2013 passionate, tormented, a bit twitchy perhaps… Are they the roles you enjoy most? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Whishaw looks momentarily mortified and takes his time answering, gazing into the fixed distance over my shoulder with a slightly stricken look in his eyes\u2026 \u201cYeahhhh,\u201d he drawls slowly. He starts laughing, but it\u2019s laughter with an edge to it. It occurs to me that the word \u2018twitchy\u2019 hasn\u2019t gone down well with an actor as palpably sensitive as Whishaw…<\/em><\/p>\n

Um… Yeah, it\u2019s funny… it\u2019s very strange when people start saying, \u2018You\u2019re this.\u2019 Because you don\u2019t have any notion of what you are. You don\u2019t have eyes outside of yourself, looking at yourself. So it\u2019s not the way I view myself. And it\u2019s not something that I\u2019m trying to do… Dunno.<\/p>\n

\"Ben<\/a><\/center>But would you say that you\u2019re mainly drawn to characters who are introspective?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah, definitely. You\u2019re drawn to something that you feel like you can bring something of your experience of life to. You want to give some authentic thing of life, don\u2019t you? That\u2019s what I do, anyway. You wanna give something pure. I\u2019m looking for roles where I feel like there can be a marriage between you and the part and you can reveal something. And, yeah, I s\u2019pose they have been intense and \u2018twitchy\u2019.<\/p>\n

Whishaw creases up in laughter, chortling harder and louder than any other moment in our conversation. I join in, relieved he\u2019s seeing the humorous side but still anxious that I\u2019ve hurt his feelings, or that he thinks I\u2019ve just reduced his entire career down to one unflattering word. I fumble about explaining that what I meant is he\u2019s so damn good at conveying pain and passion in characters who rarely seem comfortable in their own skin…<\/em><\/p>\n

Are you annoyed?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No, not at all. I understand how these things come about.<\/p>\n

So do you consider yourself to be a highly sensitive person?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes and no. I think I could be more sensitive and sometimes I think I\u2019m too sensitive.<\/p>\n

In what situations are you too sensitive?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Um… I don\u2019t know. I guess it\u2019s too difficult to go into that.<\/p>\n

Does it ever make your job difficult? <\/strong><\/p>\n

I think the thing I\u2019ve got to get better at is not so much the sensitive thing; I think I can use that well. But I have this kind of reaction if something\u2019s gone badly to just wanna go, [puts on an angry, miserable voice] \u2018Oh fuck it\u2026 it\u2019s all going to shit and I\u2019m a fucking failure.\u2019 It\u2019s something I\u2019ve observed in myself recently, this kind of destructive thing. \u2018Chuck it all away\u2026 Fuck it all\u2019. [laughs] Which I think is not so good. I feel like it\u2019s just energy I need to get rid of but I can quite quickly go into this negative space. And that\u2019s not helpful for working.<\/p>\n

Is it hard to lift yourself out of that mood?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I always get out of it… I\u2019m trying to write a film about the church and I\u2019ve been reading the Bible and there\u2019s a line in the Bible about, \u2018Don\u2019t let the sun go down on your anger.\u2019 And I think about that. Like, you can be angry or frustrated with yourself but try and let it go. I just go with the feeling but try not to cling on to it for too long.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s a weighty topic to take on, a film about the church. <\/strong><\/p>\n

[Laughs] Yeah. I don\u2019t really know what it\u2019s gonna be yet. I don\u2019t think of myself as a writer… I can\u2019t really write at all actually. But there\u2019s a story I would quite like to tell, but I think I probably need help in the writing of it.<\/p>\n

Fame seems to have usurped religion in modern life. What\u2019s your attitude towards it? <\/strong><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t even think about it. And I\u2019m fairly certain it\u2019s not something that\u2019s gonna ever happen to me.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s what most actors say…<\/strong><\/p>\n

Oh really? Well, it\u2019s just not a part of my life. It\u2019s not a concern. If people stop you, that\u2019s a really gratifying thing, because they\u2019ve been touched in some way or you\u2019ve had some impact upon them which is lovely. But nothing beyond that ever happens to me.<\/p>\n

What made you want to become an actor? <\/strong><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know. I\u2019ve always dressed up and created little characters and little stories and performances. And I\u2019ve just carried on doing that, really. I thought I\u2019d go to art school and I started an art course but then I gave it up after a couple of weeks and went to drama school instead. It was quite clear to me.<\/p>\n

You\u2019d already made a couple of films before you went to RADA…<\/strong><\/p>\n

I had, but I really wanted to do theatre. As a teenager, that\u2019s what I loved watching most. I didn\u2019t really watch many films and I wasn\u2019t especially interested in them. I loved going to the theatre and I loved watching theatre actors. That was what I wanted to do so it\u2019s been a surprise to me to be involved in making films and finding that I really love it. In the last couple of years I\u2019ve been trying to educate myself about films. I have this American agent and when she came to London, she asked me what films I liked and I couldn\u2019t name anything. She said, \u2018You\u2019ve got to educate yourself\u2019 and I took her on her word. Now I really love film.<\/p>\n

What did you educate yourself with? Not Michael Bay movies, I trust…<\/strong><\/p>\n

No! I love Tarkovsky, I love Bergman. Jane introduced me to Bresson and Cassavetes. And I\u2019m just discovering Jim Jarmusch. There seems to be a lack of daring in some of the films that are being made now and I\u2019m just so intrigued as to how artists like Tarkovsky made their films.<\/p>\n

When you came out of RADA, you played Hamlet straight off the bat. It\u2019s the role that every actor wants to play at some point in their life and you\u2019ve already crossed it off the list…<\/strong><\/p>\n

It was about eight months after I\u2019d left college. I was doing a play at the National Theatre where I was playing a bear and a witch. And then I got Hamlet.<\/p>\n

You were in His Dark Materials at the National!? Playing a bear?<\/strong><\/p>\n

[laughs] Yeah, I was a few parts. One of them was bear and one of them was a witch. There was a gaggle of witches, all played by women, and because they were a bit short on women in the cast and I was very skinny \u2013 and still am \u2013 they dragged me in to being a witch.<\/p>\n

Did you enjoy it?<\/strong><\/p>\n

It was one of the most humiliating experiences of my life. I still can\u2019t believe that I did it. There were several other guys who were dragged into being witches as well but they were too masculine-looking and were jettisoned. Whereas I was kept on for the entire run.<\/p>\n

IMDB lists one of your credits as the Al Pacino version of The Merchant Of Venice but I have to confess I couldn\u2019t spot you in it.<\/strong>..<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know what that\u2019s about. I\u2019m not in The Merchant Of Venice. I got a fan letter once saying, ‘We loved your performances in Perfume and The Merchant Of Venice.’ Haha! I promise you I\u2019m not in it!<\/p>\n

But you are playing Ariel in Julie Taymor\u2019s version of Shakespeare\u2019s The Tempest, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes. Julie\u2019s an interesting task-master. She\u2019ll throw anything at you and expect you to rise to it. Ariel transforms into a harpy so I was naked, apart from a little jockstrap, and painted black; I had my eyebrows shaved off; I was given breasts; I had these enormous wings. And I had to recite this speech which Julie said, \u2018Can you do it in double-time cos we\u2019re gonna slow it down?\u2019 So I was flapping about doing this double speed speech-afying. I can understand that some people might find that kind of stuff hard. But I loved it. I love that feeling of, ‘Come on, we can do everything. We can do anything…’<\/p>\n

Words: Matt Mueller
\nImages: Toyin
\nStyling: Luke Day<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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