Few genres have as rich a legacy as R&B. Older than rock, more eclectic than indie, and as emotionally resonant as any sound, like all genres, there are no lines of definition, rather characteristics, procured through decades, with generations of greats passing on the sonic baton in a never-ending relay for indelible validity.

“Soul,” Marsha Ambrosius explains, is at the crux of R&B’s very essence. The Liverpudlian to Los Angeles (as of 24 years) icon was half of one of 90s and 00s R&B’s defining duos Floetry, and has since gone on to have a venerable career as a solo performer, acclaimed across multiple adored records. Following a seemingly indefinite hiatus from releasing and a health scare in 2019, her and Dr. Dre – whom Ambrosius had closely worked with before – announced that a new album produced entirely by the latter legend would be shared. It’s a highly anticipated release in both the UK and US R&B spaces, the “album drop of [all] album drops,” according to Ambrosius herself, and made in the spare time amidst going full “soccer mom” for her first grade daughter.

“I just don’t think there’s any rules anymore basically,” offers Mahalia when we discuss its evolving style. Born-and-raised in East Midlands cultural hub Leicester, the singer-songwriter is amongst the UK’s leading R&B talents. She tells me of releasing her first EP at the age of 13, which is “hidden away and nobody really knows about it” (sorry, the cat’s out the bag now), and has since in the past decade become an ever-present entity in the flourishing ecosystem that the UK’s scene pertains. She’s been critically acclaimed with both her album drops to date, most recently IRL in July 2023, has collaborated with rappers like Stormzy, AJ Tracey and Pa Salieu, and built global foundations – an ambition that many UK R&B acts fall short on.

Well, they used to fall short at least. The tides are turning now though, and R&B is surging forward, invading further mainstream territory in its battle for unquestionable credibility. Streaming giant Spotify have recognised the growth of the UK’s scene, celebrating the renaissance with news of their Riffs and Runs campaign.

In their first of a multitude of forthcoming activations in their R&B push this year, which all revolves around their Riffs and Runs playlist that features underground newcomers and global heavy-hitters alike, they’ve shared a film featuring some of Britain’s towering talents: Bellah, Odeal, Jaz Karis, Mnelia, Miraa May, No Guidnce, Jvck James, Shaé Universe, Elmiene and Sipprell. Mahalia and Marsha Ambrosius also star, and are centric to the campaign. They both join me via zoom for a conversation about their own careers, the rise of UK R&B, its scene in comparison to its more prominent American neighbours, and the challenges the genre still faces.

Watch the film…

Read the full interviews…

How do you reflect on your career as a whole?
10 years ago I felt like I’d already surpassed my own expectations of what I wanted to come to accomplish in the music industry. So it’s like – what can I do after that that makes this still feel brand new or still feel like something that I’m not going to be able to do in the future and isn’t monotonous. And it really is life. My daughter said something to me this morning and it just opened my eyes to this new universe. It stems from where most of my music comes from – just real experiences. So now it’s enjoying that and really embracing everything.

Why did you make the decision to work on and release a new record?
When I was recording the album in 2021, the world was going through so much. It was so uncertain. I had a health scare and almost lost my life at the end of 2019 and then the pandemic happened and I couldn’t [be with] my close family. So music was kind of the driving force to save me at that point. [Before working on this album] I was kind of over doing the artist thing. I’ve been screaming from the rooftops for so long that I’ve never wanted to be in the forefront at all, this is all one happy accident so I’m thankful for that part. The pandemic made this album a time capsule of music that I wanted to thank for being there for me when i was at my lowest moment and didn’t realise it.

How has it been returning to the industry in preparation for the release of the album? What’s changed from your point of view?
I guess the adaption for me was to find more ways to communicate with my audience. In the industry decades ago, when there was no internet, there was no direct connect. There was fans waiting outside of a record store waiting for you to appear to physically sign an album, but now it’s, ‘@marshaambrosius hey I can’t stand you’ or ‘Hi I love you’. So it’s immediate negative or positive connection with an audience. I don’t think there’s a negative or a positive to it, it’s just new and it’s about what you do with it. I’ve just found a new way to communicate with people.

Do you think that R&B artists can succeed in the UK in the same way they can in AmericA?
The UK has never really had a true space for the success of a megastar. If we say megastar, that’s a Beyonce. Like who was the UK’s Beyonce? I don’t think we’ve had one. I think the UK really has to embrace what it has and acknowledge what people have done.

Do you think that now with the growth of the R&B scene that there is that infrastructure there to build more of a comprehensive R&B scene in the UK, and to have that megastar?
I think there is but it takes community to do that and to understand that there’s a strong unified voice that allows things like that to happen. It has to come together and celebrate the UK R&B scene. Like why isn’t there a UK R&B festival every year that highlights the R&B scene from the top to the bottom? I think there’s a story to be told and it’s going to take some community and togetherness to really pull that off.

Do you think that R&B have a wider demographic than it did 20 years ago?
Absolutely. It’s pop, it’s the driving force of everything. It’s only defined as R&B if it looks like me. I think SZA said recently – if she weren’t Black she wouldn’t even be considered as an R&B or an urban artist and I absolutely agree. On the flip side you’ve got Justin Bieber fighting for a R&B Grammy nod because he does R&B. It’s like everything borrowing from this one core thing – which is soul.

The R&B sound has evolved emphatically, it’s now more eclectic and sonically wide ranging. How has that helped its acclaim?
Sub-genres are necessary for the growth of the art. Floetry was neo-soul, it wasn’t R&B, it’s a subsidiary of R&B. It wasn’t the same as Destiny’s Child or it wasn’t the same as TLC, but it was still urban so what do we call it if it’s got to be something? Rock has sub-genres; Foo Fighters are not blink 182. If look at it on the surface, it’s two bands but they’re completely different. But for the growth aspect you still have to find this one core thing which is that umbrella and call it what it is – it is soul, it is R&B at its core, and everyone gets to take a chunk out of it and give their variation of what that is. That’s where artists grow.

Who in the UK R&B space have you got your eye on?
I’ve been following Tiana Major9 for a while. I was on Ella Mai when she was doing covers on YouTube because she reminded me of my little cousin. Raye, I love. There’s an authenticity to certain voices that can’t be carbon copied; you can see where their influences come from but you can’t fake that, you can’t pretend to be a great – you already are one. I remember Michael Jackson actually telling me that. I’m like ‘Mike you’re the king of pop, how am i even in your presence?’ I feel like any artist who wants to be a great can’t snub and be like, ‘Oh no I want to do my own thing.’ You have to study – we’re in school and it’s you’re taking a test, you are honing in on the thing that you’re studying for, you need 100% of knowledge in that one thing. So to be great is that and the UK I truly believe has the potential to have a massive star in the R&B space because of how much we love it and because of how much we’re influenced by it.

What’s the future hold for you?
I did not see this part of my life happening – the good and the bad. Having a near-death experience drove me to what is now ultimately my thank you to planet earth for allowing me to be here for the time that I had. This is all the music and all of the art that I love in one space on one album. It’s almost like my own eulogy. I’m just glad I got to say thank you to everyone on one album, truly.

How’s your year been so far?
It’s been good actually. I’ve just finished my second tour of the year which was nice. I’m writing again which is fun and creating music again which just makes me really happy. I feel really good about music, about writing. I’m just kind of gliding along.

Have you got a busy summer ahead?
Yeah, quite a few festivals,, and then I’ll probably be writing to be honest for most of it. I’m just trying to completely throw myself back into creating and being in that space again.

Now that the dust has settled following the release of your sophomore album IRL last summer, how are you feeling about it?
I still just feel incredibly proud. I think when I first made it, I was scared to put it out. Love and Compromise was 2019 so then with it being four years, it kind of felt like a comeback and I didn’t know if it was the right one. Also releasing stuff into the world is just quite an intimidating thing anyway, I always get nervous before a release and that’s a single release so then with an album it always feels a bit mental. But then in the months after I just felt massively proud. One thing that’s been great is doing the tours and seeing how people have been taking it and seeing them enjoy it, and figuring out which songs they love and which songs they connect with the most. This album particularly reflects a really important part of my life.

The new record was followed by a deluxe version. What is the appeal of a deluxe album to an artist?
Particularly as a signed artist, you don’t always see eye to eye [with the label] on like what should be on the record. Because I’ve been signed for so long I’ve become very used to that, so basically all these are the songs that maybe [the label] weren’t feeling so much but I love, I’m going to put them on deluxe. It’s a really cool way to be able to just keep releasing more music. Also different artists do different things – some people want to put out a 16 track album but I didn’t really want to do that. I felt like the IRL story was captured in the right way in those amount of tracks and so the deluxe just allowed me to extend the story a little bit.

Have you aways considered yourself to be an R&B artist?
Definitely not, when I first started I had no idea. I was just playing the guitar, that’s what I wanted to do. I think I was always into that kind of music and I absolutely grew up around R&B, but then I also grew up on a lot of other stuff, like I’ve always loved a lot of indie music. I always wanted to make music basically and I think as a kid I was always kind of freaked out by the idea of genre because I didn’t really know what genre I would fit into based on the things that I loved and the things that I was creating. Then I think naturally as I got older, I started listening to different types of sonics and got a bit more confident in the studio. I have always said that I think I’m a mix of a bunch of different stuff. I think it’s absolutely R&B at the root, but then there’s acoustic soul, there’s definitely some pop influence in, there there’s some indie influence in there. I always wanted it to feel like a mix of everything basically.

R&B is a genre that has risen to new-found heights during its current generations renaissance. As an artist at the crux of its growth, how have you seen the scene evolve?
I think the industry has become louder with its support. What that’s meant is that we’ve been able to see artists come to life and be at the surface in front of us. I also think that the artists who maybe are already doing well in the scene have not been quiet about that support and about pushing that support. There are definitely quite a lot of people that have been in the industry now for a long time and who will shout so loud so that we can’t be ignored, but also so that the artists coming after us also can’t be ignored. I think the main thing is that there are more spaces now that exist for all of us that weren’t there when I was coming up. I think that’s incredibly important; artists want to have spaces and have stages that they feel welcome on.

How is it more inclusive now?
For starters DJs are playing us on the radio now which helps. As an artist having that type of support is really important. Radio isn’t the same as it was when I was growing up but it still carries a lot of weight and also I think it’s nice to be recognised by your peers and by people who you are music lovers. And as I said there are new spaces that exist: there are R&B live nights, I put on a night that’s for R&B music called Mahalia Presents and I know DJ Ace puts on a night. There’s quite a few of those spaces that in London and I think the aim now is to take them and push them further out so that regional areas find that support as well.

What is modern R&B, at its essence?
It doesn’t have to be a certain tempo, it doesn’t have to be certain melodies, you’ve not got to be only talking about love. Like you can talk about anything and have any kind of sonic and it can be classed as R&B. I think that now the goalposts are wider, it doesn’t feel like there’s any rules anymore. When I was a kid I’d be like – that’s an R&B song because maybe it was slow to mid tempo, maybe it’s a guy talking about how much he misses his girl. It was what we would call classic r&b whereas now you see all these artists who technically fit into the same genre but they all are doing something different.

Your collaboration list is mouthwatering both in and outside of R&B. What do you think the importance of collaboration is with other R&B artists and also outside of the core genre?
I think it’s incredibly important because in the UK we know that it’s underrepresented in industry spaces and the more that we support each other, the more people hear about us. We all have different reach, we all have different amounts of listeners, you know, maybe there’s an artist from here [the UK] who’s really big in Malaysia and maybe there’s another artist who’s really big in Australia. I think it allows us to keep pushing ourselves further out and essentially making us more successful when we’re constantly being told that we can’t be successful here. Working with other artists is just important anyway, it’s absolutely brilliant when you get to see genres blending and merging. Even with the record I did with Stormzy, having a moment of him singing on a classic waltz beat that’s a love song was probably unexpected from a lot of people.

Who do you see as the next generations? Who are the newcomers in R&B who you are watching closely and wanting to past the baton onto?
I have to say say Saint Harison, although his baton is firmly in his hand, he’s already off with the wind. I have to say No Guidnce who are so brilliant. Obviously we’ve been seeing the resurgence of girl groups with like FLO and Say Now, but who doesn’t love a boy band, particularly us girlies. So I think it’s amazing to see and also they’re lovely and they sing beautifully and the songs are amazing so I’d say them. Chrissy is one of my favourite artists I don’t know if she’d call herself R&B though but I think she’s brilliant. Hamzaa who’s been around for a long time but I don’t think has received the flowers she deserves. There’s just so many people coming through and I think that that’s exciting in itself.

What’s your opinion on the changes in way music in marketed and consumed – most namely social media and TikTok in particular. Do you think it’s diluting what is at the core of a musical movement, and/or aiding in its rise?
This is a constant to and fro for me. TikTok itself is a really brilliant tool and we’ve seen it launch careers in the last few years, but I think it’s really breaking artists’ – I don’t want to say soul but that sounds intense but I think it kind of is doing that. I’ve got a lot of friends who are making music and coming up and I see how much weight they put on that. It’s essentially just a social media app, but the panic they feel, or if they post something and it doesn’t do well the sadness that they feel. Do I like it? Not really. I think we’re all putting too much weight on it. I think we also see that in labels who are essentially forcing artists to do stuff that [artists] are not really built to do. I think for the generation now who are growing up with it, it can be different because it comes naturally to them. It’s a difficult one. It’s not the only way you can do well and break in the industry, but I think it’s making people feel like it is the only way. I don’t know if we’re built to do it. Most of us are introverted, and if not we’re extroverted introvert who create this stuff behind closed doors then release it which is difficult enough. But now we have to but our face in front of the camera, be funny, be everyone’s best friend, also be the baddest bitch of the Internet… I just don’t think I can play that many roles. And I think TikTok makes you feel like you have to.

What lies ahead for you, and for R&B as a genre?
I want to release an album in the next two years, I don’t want to wait another four, that’s my main goal [laughs] I definitely want to see myself elevate and move up. There’s always another level you can go to and I’ve never been shy about saying that I absolutely want to be successful. I’d love to see that for my own growth. For R&B generally I would love kids here who make R&B music to not believe that they have to move to America to do well. I would like the UK to become somewhere that we can live and thrive, and then also travel the world and do well globally. When we see an R&B artist do well in the UK, I don’t want them to be an anomaly.

Check out the Riffs & Runs playlist on Spotify here.