There really is a Method to the Maadness – Kane Robinson wasn’t lying. His artistry has an objective: it’s here to tell the truth. In 2011 – just one year after his aforementioned album dropped, his fourth album to be released – he swapped spitting rapid-fire rhymes for Britain’s favourite street drama and Summer House’s Sully was born. Summer House then became Top Boy, and Top Boy then became an entire generation of underrepresented multicultural kids’ mirror – for the first time sensitive, nuanced and informed – to the reality of London’s social fabric. Sully became a living legend: ruthless, relatable and resilient. Kane who played the territorial leader for over 10 years, and had already become one of London’s most important Rap exports, continued to grow his own.

In 2022, he won a MOBO award for Best Performance in a TV Show/Film for Top Boy, having previously been nominated in 2020. Throwing issues with unrelenting immigration laws, incessant youth violence, stark inequality and more under glaring interrogation, the series – reprised for its final three seasons by Drake – culminated in an explosive finale last year. For his first acting role since Top Boy, and lead role in a film to date, he most recently stars as Izi in the dizzying Netflix thriller The Kitchen, co-directed by Daniel Kaluuya and Kibwe Tavares. Set in a dystopian near future, Izi navigates a world in which social housing no longer exists, and the cataclysmic impact that has on their cohesive community. It’s an evocative story of fatherhood, something Kane has recently been navigating himself, with the powerful fragility of humanity at its very core; a probing love letter to the neighbourhoods he experienced growing up in East London and a provocative premonition for the city’s future – often unbearably close to our present.

Throughout his acting tenure, the 38-year-old has continued to reshape Rap, popularising the genre outside of the UK. His fifth album Made In The Manor, reached No.8 in the UK, was shortlisted for the Mercury Prize, and won 2016’s MOBO award for Album of the Year. But what brings all of this together? Like many of his fans and critics, Kane agrees that his career has somewhat of a through line. If it’s intentional, he’s not sure, it’s what he knows. But being steadfast as a mouthpiece for the truth, whether that’s in acting or music – that really is. Speaking of which, he’s been recording in the studio. Wanting to release new music? That’s a place he’s definitely in. Being patronisingly interviewed by people excruciatingly propped up on their invisible pedestals? That’s a space he’d rather avoid. A room he actually equates with success? One filled by people who champion his history and influence. Kane has his eyes on an even bigger prize now: leading the next generation into that very room.

Daniel Kaluuya Global Kane – I’ve got questions.

Kane Robinson We’ll be cooking soon.

DK We’ll be cooking bruv. I tried to ask it at the youth premiere but I kind of feel you low-key swerved it [laughs]. Maybe you’re not comfortable talking about it, but for me, I just really want people to know the dedication and commitment you put into your craft. How do you prepare for a role? And what are your particular rituals? I can see you’re probably still figuring it out, ‘cause I’m still figuring it out. But what do you need to know about your character in order to access it and exist within it?

KR That’s a tough one. I haven’t got any rituals and I don’t want to say anything to fucking make it sound like it’s more than what it is, or to sound like a better actor than I am. It’s not so much about what I do, it’s about what it does to me. When I decide to [take on a role], it consumes me. The material consumes me, and who this person is consumes me to the point of it’s all I think about. A lot of it I do write down, and I make notes, but probably even more of it I don’t write down. It’s a dialogue with myself, but even with the people around me, like it dominates any and every conversation – at dinner, or at home, or on the phone. I’m critiquing material. I’m like, ‘This doesn’t feel right. Why would this person do this?’ A lot of it is finding flaws to try and fix, or just [figuring out] the reason why something happens to a character. And then sometimes I think about who I know that has made the same decisions as the character. Who can I have a conversation with that will give me a bit of an insight into their thinking? I only can deal with reality and I think I would struggle to act in something that was a complete fantasy. [A project] where I couldn’t hold onto anything real, and see [the character] as a real human being. I would need to find a way to make them a real human being. So when something consumes me in that way is when I know, ‘This is me doing the work.’

DK And in that consumption, what are you looking for? How do you feel your life changes when you have this character around you?

KR I don’t know how much it changes. Maybe that’s for other people to tell me. But I know when I’m not doing it anymore because there’s a weight off, and there’s this ease and things go back to normal. What I’m looking for is just…I guess just an honesty, a heart, a soul. And, initially that comes from trying to apply myself to this person. It starts off being very much about who I am, and how I would do this, and trying to get as close to myself as possible. I don’t know, maybe other people try and get as far away from themselves as possible and maybe that’s considered real acting or whatever, but I like to bring the [character] as close to me as possible so we’re almost one. Then there becomes a point where you’re so into the material that it kind of peels off, where something would happen and you’re like, ‘Do you know what? I wouldn’t make this decision, but this is the right decision. This is becoming someone else now.’ That might not even happen before shooting, that might happen during. So a lot of the earlier stuff when I’m filming really is as close to me as possible but then there’s a time where it’s like…I’m making the decisions as Izi now and he has his own soul that’s kind of left mine. If that makes any sense?

DK No, it makes complete sense. I always used to describe it like ‘I’m using who I am to show you who I’m not.’ And so basically it’s me, until it’s fucking not. It’s a different guy – that’s what I understood of what you’re saying. But what it sounds like is that you don’t travel with the [characters] as you. You just kind of let them go and let them make their decisions for themselves which is what I saw on set and in the edit. There was things there which are impromptu – lines or decisions. And if you did another take, you wouldn’t be able to get there again because it was true to that moment. So, I fuck with that. With Izi and that, it’s your first lead role in a film. What did you think, coming into it, was the biggest challenge you faced? And then when you actually were doing it, what was the biggest challenge? And were they the same?

KR The biggest challenge is I had just signed up for doing Top Boy, but The Kitchen was going to shoot before Top Boy and it was just about giving myself enough time. I remember saying to you the scripts were coming in for Top Boy and I didn’t want to read them because I couldn’t do two things at once. I just needed clear space between the two. The challenge was playing a completely new character without finishing the old one and knowing I was going into both [projects] in the first quarter of the year. But yeah, playing a new character that maybe I didn’t have as much control over, I hadn’t dedicated as much time to – I mean obviously I dedicated the time to it, but not like 10 years of time [like for Sully in Top Boy]. This was starting fresh, starting new, which was scary. But it was something that I wanted to do, to prove to myself as well, that I was able.

DK So this was a job where there was a big period of time between the main filming and the reshoots, where we did a considerable amount of changes and tweaks to the film. How was returning to a project after shooting it? And what was your journey during that time and how did that influence what you did on screen?

KR Yeah, that was one of the biggest challenges because like I said, I was doing these two projects. But come around that time, I was, again, doing two projects, but one was music. I remember speaking to you, I was in Jamaica and I was recording. We was talking about the reshoots, and I think you had sent some scripts and I was worried about reading it because I knew if I started reading a couple lines, my head would start going there, and then I can’t do what I need to do here in the studio. But if I don’t read it until I land [in London for the reshoots], then I’m not going to give myself enough time or whatever. It was difficult in that sense, switching head spaces. I feel like that’s when I leaned on you the most because a lot was changing, and big stuff as well like the storyline. I was always worried, as I expressed to you, how this was going to impact stuff that we shot earlier that wasn’t changing. You was like, ‘Don’t worry I got you!’ [Laughs] I was relieved when you said it.

DK [Laughs] I would be nervous too bro, it’s a lot.

KR You know what I mean? I remember speaking to [actors and rappers] Bashy [Ashley Thomas] and Asher [Ashley Walters] about it, and I remember to be fair they was like ‘Oooh’. But when I told them, they were like ‘You’re saving grace is Daniel. If it weren’t Daniel in the edit, I would be worried right now.’ Like, if you were maybe using a reaction to something else as part of a different scene or something. But they were like, ‘Daniel’s the one I would trust to be in the edit, have things under control, and look out for you in terms of your individual performance as well as the whole piece – you’re good.’ But that was tough. I was in your hands and I was at that moment a player, you know what I mean? Allowing you to be a coach. I was going on the field and I was listening to my manager, and trying to do what I could do for the team.

DK Yeah, and you killed it bruv. So Top Boy and The Kitchen, those are the two projects I’ve heard you speak about that’ve spoken to you and you’ve felt compelled by. There are parallels within those worlds. If you zoom out and look at your choices as an artist in terms of moving into film, storytelling and acting, how intentional is it that they both wrestle with a lot of London socio-economic themes? For a lot of people, at face value, Top Boy is a show about certain people that are shot etc, but it’s really about the fabric of London life through the eyes of these two men who are basically the lords of the manor. You see the whole manor, and what everybody in the manor is going through. And then, The Kitchen has those parallels. There’s a through line, not a pattern, but something within those projects that you care about, that you gravitate towards. I just want to hear the intention behind it, or if you’re aware of it, and your thoughts behind always choosing these narratives that are about showing the fabric of working-class life, London life, and British life.

KR Yeah, it’s interesting. I think I’m aware of it, but a lot of it is instinctive. They’re the themes that resonate with me because of the place where I grew up and I think that tracks back to me writing music really. It’s the standpoint I always write from because it’s what I know. I’m just drawn towards stories about underprivileged communities because that’s what I know. [My manager] Rich once said to me, ’All your albums are like Home Sweet Home, Made In The Manor, Hoodies All Summer and London Town’, it’s always a little biographical. At the beginning of my career, I saw that me having a voice shed light on people that maybe didn’t have a voice or didn’t think they had one. I was really speaking for a community. It’s the same with film, I am just drawn to stories from that standpoint, and obviously being a Londoner as well, I felt like we were on the same page and cared about our city. We wanted to do our best to tell these stories, to shine light on certain situations. So a lot of that is instinctive and it’s what I gravitate towards. But if I really think about it as well, it’s like a lot of the acting I’ve done is an extension of the music I’ve made. I feel like although it’s a departure from my music career, it’s still a comfortable space in terms of the themes, and a space that will allow me to continue to make music on that path. It might be different if I was in some period drama, like a real English thing or, I don’t know, something completely left field or playing some silly character in a film really about nothing. Although it’s just a character, I don’t know if my music can be taken as seriously. That’s why I’m happy with choosing projects that can be considered as serious projects because I know I’m not being me – but I’m always me.

DK You have an identity. You want to be consistent and thorough with what you represent out there.

KR Yeah, and because I’m a recording artist and audio is so important, I get offered a lot of voiceovers. I can’t do it because I need you, when you listen to my music, to hear my voice and it to just mean the truth.

DK Yes, yes, yes.

KR If you hear my voice over an advert, knowing I don’t love Skechers that much [laughs] but they paid well. My voice will no longer be synonymous with the truth, if you know what I mean.

DK [Laughs] I agree.

KR And although I’m playing characters, I still feel like they’re solid characters – although flawed and everything, and so am I, so is my music or whatever. But, you know what I mean.

DK Bruv, I feel the same about my face. I feel like I can’t show my face if it’s not for a reason, if I’m not rooted in it. If I’m in a certain advert in a certain way, and I’m in a film…you’re not going to believe [the film] because ‘he was just in that advert like that’. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes I’ve lost so much money because of it. It’s just like, I care so much about [people] believing in [my performances]. When you switch it on and it’s like, ‘Oh, it’s my man.’ It triggers something. So I completely understand that about your voice. I never thought of it like that. I noticed something you said on this press run that I found so interesting – I may have butchered it here so correct me if I’m wrong. You spoke about scenes as verses, episodes as songs, and series’ as albums. What I’m intrigued about is your point of view about the similarities between acting and music, where do you see the parallels?

KR When I started doing acting, I just thought they were wildly different. Like, how could you even compare the two? But I guess they are both vehicles conveying a message or telling a story, that’s very similar. I think the difference is, in music, especially with my music, being more often than not autobiographical, I’m telling my story. And in film, you’re helping someone else tell their story. In terms of on a practical level, I think that’s when it gets even more different. Making music in comparison to making a film is just wildly different. A lot more pieces have to come together. I collaborate a lot [in music], but it’s even more of a collaboration in film, there’s a lot less control. For The Kitchen, we’ve spoken through the whole process, but I can imagine it doesn’t have to be like that. It’s like writing a bunch of lines and then just handing it over and then listening to the radio to see how the song turned out. Do you know what I’ve been thinking about, after this film had been released, what is the payoff for you? Because you work on an album, you work on a film, you know, you’re writing, you’re tweaking, you’re editing. Well, you’re editing, we’re mixing, and then you’re mastering, you’re grading. You go through the whole same thing, and then it’s like you did promo and then you release. Then, the film’s out and it just lives. And an album’s out, and it lives. But then you go and perform it every night. People come and thousands of people sing along to it with you. It just carries on and you get to feel the love and live it again and again and again and then you perform that later on – five years later and ten years later and it’s, like, classic.

DK There isn’t, really. The closest I ever got it was when I did [the TV show] Skins. After we did Skins, we went to the Skins parties up and down the country, at universities and that. We’d go and meet people of our age at appearances, 19-year-olds and 20-year-olds, and you’d feel what a Pop star would feel like or a musician would feel like. But there isn’t a space where you feel it when you release things. You kind of feel it on the street randomly or sometimes when I’m at a music festival, that’s when I’ll feel it. You feel the impact of the story by how people come to you or how people have changed, it’s more nuanced. It’s not a collective experience. You just have to kind of let it go. So something like Get Out has kind of grown year by year. Now middle-aged people are fucking with it that. They have job jobs so they’ve only gone and watched it now and they’re like, ‘Oh, shit.’ And then different kinds of people ask you for selfies – that’s how you really receive the impact of it. But the gift is that it lives. The gift is that in 50 years time, someone can watch it – that’s why I do film, because it is more likely to live on beyond me. It’s like I’m dead, it’s there. You know what I mean? So, maybe a lot of people don’t know how Top Boy essentially got let go by Channel 4, right? First iteration, which is Summer House on Netflix. And then now it became Top Boy, official Top Boy, on Netflix as well. With the new series, I did feel a massive jump in your understanding of your awareness, craft, skill set, your commitment and your dedication. Even though I felt what you did in the first two series’ was amazing, there was like a deepening that happened in that process. It was so interesting because you didn’t act in-between them. So it’s not like you did more hours, but something had shifted. What did you think shifted in that period of time?

KR I couldn’t tell you what shifted apart from just me as a person, I grew. It’s like when I listen to very old songs of mine or whatever, even if they’re songs that people like – I listen to them and I can just hear unrealised material. It’s just not there yet, l was still growing. I’m still growing now. When I watched the old Top Boy seasons back I just used to see flaws. I think people loved the decisions of the character and how wild and spontaneous it could be. But me, looking at it on a super critical level, I’m like was it really like what I was doing? Yeah, you’re right, I didn’t act in that time. I just knew that I hate being shit. I just hate it, I can’t accept it. I hate it, I hate it. Not that I didn’t try hard the first time, but [with the latest seasons] I’m like, ‘If I’m going to do this, I’m going to give it everything.’ I wanted to be good. I told people this before, but in the first one, I remember doing a scene with Asher and a character called Bobby Raikes [played by Geoff Bell], and Yann Demange was directing. I remember him saying to me, ‘Well, anyway, we’ve done the scene.’ And then we had a break in the schedule, I think a kid broke his arm or something. Yann met up with me and showed me all the stuff that he thought was good, and the stuff that he didn’t like. He showed me the scene we just did and he’s like, ‘But you’re not in it, what are you doing?’ And I’m like, ‘Nothing. I got the mic on I don’t want to move because you’re going to hear the jacket when it ruffles on the mic and stuff.’ So I thought while Asher was talking, I would just be frozen and then when it comes my turn to talk, then I’ll talk. I’m looking at it like I’m in the studio or something [laughs]. Like, you know what I mean? And he’s like, ‘Nah, you’ve got to be present. You’ve got to live within the scene. You’ve got to hear what’s going on. You’ve got to listen.’ And anyway, we had that talk and I think that helped me. I started to think about that more. I started getting better. With the newest seasons, when it came back on Netflix, a lot more was required of me, so I had to give a lot more. I feel like with the storyline there were some big scenes that I was scared about doing, but, I just fully leaned into it really. I done some sessions with an acting coach called Martin Ledwith. He was really good for me. We’d speak it over and stuff, we never really acted anything out but it’s just always someone to bounce off of. I’m one of these people that like to fully believe in what I’m doing to be able to do it properly. I don’t know what exactly to put it down to…

DK No, it makes sense. All right, Kane, let’s keep it real, bro. Where’s the music, bruv?

KR [Laughs]

DK We can’t forget Kano, bro. You know what I’m saying? Whatever you’re comfortable saying publicly, but where’s your head at? ‘Cause obviously people want to know, you know what I’m saying? People need to not forget how you started.

KR I’m at the place where I need to be, which is, I’ve missed the shit out of it. I feel like when you’ve been around – I’ve been doing it for 20 years – I’m at a place where I need to allow myself to miss it to want to do it again. What I know I can’t do is continue to make music while doing other projects and stuff. I just feel like that would be a disservice to, well, firstly myself, and then to the fans as well because they want an album every year from me, but I don’t think they would really want to listen to what that would sound like [laughs]. I’ve been recording, I kind of stopped recording now, but I was recording a little bit last year. I’m going to continue again this year. What I miss a hell of a lot is the stage. I miss performing. So I want to be performing and I’m always turning down shows and stuff because I always want to perform with new material. Obviously, I’d perform the old material as well, but with the focal point being new material. So I would love to drop something soon, but it just has to be right. But yeah, I’m in that place though. I’m definitely in that place.

DK Yeah, we need that. All right. So the last question, what does success look like to you?

KR Difficult one, you know when you feel like you’re successful, but you’ve got so much more to do? I feel like success to me is being able to ease the stress of the closest people around me. Success is not folding – never having to compromise your values or your morals in this industry. Being successful is having a platform to inspire young artists, and people coming from the environments I’m coming from. I take my family on holiday and I feel successful, you know what I mean?

DK Course bruv. When you don’t have to look at the balance you know what I’m trying to say? That’s success bro.

KR [Laughs] Yeah it’s that kind of shit. But I’m still not complacent, I feel like I’ve still got so much more to give and I think a part of the next phase of me achieving is also helping other people achieve and realise their dreams. What about you?

DK Oh shit.

KR I’ve got another question, leave that one. Do you feel, in terms of feeling successful, more successful when you’re in England or when you’re in America?

DK Oh shit! I feel like in England when I talk, people know where I’m from. People understand who I am so they instantly know my journey, and feeling seen feels successful. In America they’re learning about our culture in real time. There’s a couple of things coming through from Idris [Elba] to Craig David, Top Boy to Giggs – they’re downloading, they’re understanding the culture. For me, it’s not just about where you get to – it’s how far you’ve come. Everything I’m doing I want to do in different spaces, but I feel like in England there’s more understanding – for good and for bad. I mean because sometimes the way I move is there’s a prejudice on that, or it’s assumed that I’m not right because of my dialect. I feel it’s growing more in America, I think they understand me more in America now. But I feel in England, people instantly go ‘I can imagine him at school. I imagine him around the area.’

KR Okay, yeah that’s interesting. But on what you were saying there about acting, it’s a mad one, because I think it can come across in a negative way as well. l did some promo the other day, I was on the BBC Breakfast Show and I feel like because of my accent the presenters didn’t know me, but their kids did. At the end of it, it was like ‘Oh so you filmed this in London and all the cameras were following you. You must really feel like you’ve made it?’

DK [Laughs] It’s mad isn’t it.

KR [Looks bewilderingly at the ceiling mimicking] ‘You must really feel like you’ve made it?’ I don’t know. It was like, ‘Oh you should be so happy to be on this couch.’ I was thinking, I’ve fucking being doing this for 20 years – you just don’t know me. I don’t know, I just don’t feel like they would have asked [actor] Tom Hardy the same question.

DK No they wouldn’t. The majority of the time, I always take the high road. I know what’s happening and I know their thought behind…

KR [In a mock patronising voice] They’re like, ‘Awww’.

DK Like I remember one time in an interview I did, they were like ‘Wow! How do you get this American accent with such a fixed dialect?’ Everyone’s got a fixed dialect, and I’m an actor bruv – I just flipped it [laughs]. But it’s like, because they think you’re a working class guy so it’s harder for you to do what you’re doing. The reality is if I thought like that, I wouldn’t do what I did and that’s what you’re having to navigate. People essentially try to push their narrative onto you. They kind of feel like ‘Aren’t you happy to be here? Look what you managed to do…’

KR Yeah it’s like, ‘You managed to get to where I’m sitting.’ I’m like, ‘You think, I think, that this is me making it.’

DK Yeah yeah exactly, it’s all right my mum knows who I am [laughs]. It’s not a reward in that sense, it’s making things that is the reward.

KR And the youth premieres that you’ve done for The Kitchen and I know you do for other stuff – that feels entirely the opposite. Those screenings are rooms full of people that are championing you, celebrating you, and are inspired by you and know the history – that’s the room I wanted to make it into.

DK Exactly, and that’s what other actors did for me, that’s what David Harewood did for me. He came to my school one time to give a talk. So for me, it’s about how you pay it forward, how you just unlock someone’s mind – that’s success. In those rooms, they just treat you like a human. I think other rooms treat you like a commodity. If I’m getting accepted by people that treat me like a commodity, I don’t think that’s successful.

KR Bless man, I appreciate you – what a journey, man.

DK Is this your last interview?

KR Yeah.

DK Oh shit, well it’s a real one.

The Kitchen is available on Netflix now.

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