Doing things differently is what 34-year-old director Nia DaCosta is all about. With crime thriller Little Woods – which won the Nora Ephron Prize at the Tribeca Film Festival – the frighteningly brilliant Candyman alongside Jordan Peele, and the history-making The Marvels film under her belt – DaCosta is driving her own, “Nia train” – as she eloquently puts it – through the film industry. And what does it look like all aboard? Avant-garde, electrifying and bold. Her passenger today is American film director, friend and idol, Janicza Bravo, who chats to DaCosta on making The Marvels, building a creative family on her journey, and working on new film, Hedda.

Janicza Bravo Well I’m very excited to see your movie. I’m sure you’ve answered this question before, but I want to ask it anyways – what’s your earliest memory of thinking ‘I want to be a director?’ And when you look back on that earliest memory, what is the thing that leads to that? Are there a chain of events?

Nia DaCosta I mean, it’s funny, because when I think back to this time in my life, the two places that I think about are my living room in the apartment my mum, my sister and I were living in at the time in Harlem, because I was a latchkey kid, single mother. She was working, I was at home from school by myself.

JB What year is it?

NDC Let’s say it’s between 2000/2001 and 2006. [I’m
thinking] of my living room, but then also when I would go to my boarding school in Westchester, and that dorm room was full of movies, and the living room when I was younger was me watching the DVDs and VHS tapes we happened to have – and also having HBO.

JB You were watching VHS?

NDC VHS and a giant box, wooden television.

JB Those were so sexy though.

NDC I mean, depending on what you do with them. But yeah, when I think about that television, I’m like, ‘That’s crazy that they were literal massive boxes and I was alive for that era.’ But I remember watching films that I was too young to watch and not ‘Oh, I can do that, right? Probably?’ knowing what the hell was going on, but knowing I was compelled by something.

JB With your mother and sister or alone?

NDC Alone. When I think about that time, it’s really me alone finding escapism and entertainment through film. It was all sorts of films. I was into fantasy stuff, but Full Metal Jacket was also always on HBO at the time. So I didn’t know what the hell was going on. I don’t even know if I knew it was in Vietnam. What you think you’re compelled by initially is the acting, and so I was like, ‘Oh, do I want to be an actor? Is that what it is?’ But actually it was everything around it for me as well. So eventually I understood it was directing that I wanted to do. I would say it was probably in high school, around 14 or 15, watching the American New Wave ‘70s directors and all their insane, very male films and feeling like, ‘Oh, I think I want to be that. I think I want to do that.’

JB Did you know the word? Did you know what that was?

NDC My mum was the one who basically was like, ‘I think you want to direct. I think that’s what it is.’ ‘Cause you know, I think especially because there was so much authorship in that era. JB I love that. I love that your mother gave you the language for it or inserted what it looked like that you were trying to arrive at. A lot of the authorship was male-driven authorship and you didn’t think, ‘Well, how am I going to pave this space for myself?’ You just thought, ‘I could do that.’

NDC Yeah, kind of. I mean, I think it’s a mix too like, when I was even younger, and I’ve mentioned this before, Eve’s Bayou [directed by Kasi Lemmons] was an iconic film from the Black canon that we were watching all the time. Again, too young. Love & Basketball [directed by Gina Prince-Bythewood], when I was in middle school, was in my other boarding school dorm. So in a way, I already just took for granted that Black women would be making films. I think assuming they’re Black, just because it’s Black people in the movie, I was like, ‘Okay, cool, it’s a Black woman, excellent.’

JB You weren’t wrong to assume.

NDC I know, can you imagine if it was like, ‘No, that’s a Jewish man. Like, what do you mean?’

JB ‘The John Cassavetes picture.’

NDC Exactly, imagine: ‘Love & Basketball by John Cassavetes.’ [Laughs] But I think, for me, it’s striking because yes, I take it for granted that Black women would be making films, but when I got into American New Wave, for example, the way they talk about the filmmaker is different. For those directors it was a Coppola film, a Scorsese film but with these Black female directors I loved so instead of it being like, ‘Oh this is a Lemmons film,’ it’s like, ‘Oh no, this is Eve’s Bayou’ and ‘this is Love & Basketball’. I think I wanted to be a director and wanted to have a sense of authorship in the way these American New Wave directors did. And then also, because I saw Black women directing, I was like,‘Oh, I can do that, right? Probably?’

JB Yeah, probably. Seems to be working out for you.

NDC Perfecting it, I think, the whole ‘having a career thing’, but yeah.

JB Do you find any moments of quiet where you allow yourself to look back and feel proud?

NDC [Pause] Yes, and that is definitely a practice.

JB I just wanna mention, if this finds itself in the article – I wanna mention that there was a gap, there was air there [before your answer].

NDC Yeah, because I was just thinking about how much I’ve worked since I started directing, like I haven’t really taken a break, but also because of that, I had to sort of desperately find ways to find peace and to also be at peace with my career as well. I think in particular, it’s funny, I’m talking about these New Wave directors and the authorship and I’ve done two big branded studio movies back to back. So I think it’s been interesting being in those spaces and operating from this sort of idealised 16-year-old brain of ‘Oh, I’m gonna do my Scorsese picture, my Coppola picture, and my Lumet. I’m just Sidney Lumet.’ And just thinking about the way the industry’s changed and how I’ve changed as a person, I think the most…

JB But you’re also writing Nia, right? And so in writing Nia’s path, you’re in a multitude. If you want that, you will make that. I think your next picture is more in line with that thing that you saw at 16. These two films in between your first and now this, you’re not veering. It’s the same road because it’s your road.

NDC Exactly. And that’s, I think, what pausing helps me to come to, you know? I mean, also, I’ll just say, watching you and your career is so inspiring because I feel like the authorship that you have is what I aspire to in the sense of like, your movies are so you, and they can’t be anything but that. I think that’s so special and important because I think that’s sort of a place that is really fulfilling to create from. Movies are always gonna be fucking hard and we’re always gonna be having our challenges on them, and that’s part of what makes them so gratifying.

JB So how do we get to The Marvels? How does that work?

NDC So, we actually sent them Candyman. The movie hadn’t come out yet, but because of [my first film] Little Woods and because Marvel likes to work with indie directors; they’re really open to greener directors, newer voices. I was on a short list and I pitched for the movie and then we sent them Candyman so they could watch it, which is so interesting because so much of Hollywood is built around hype. So, they had to form their own opinions about whether they thought I could direct the movie or not – and not be told by other people. I was doing the Marvel movie and then Candyman came out, which is crazy. Between getting Jordan Peele for Candyman and The Marvels, these studios started saying, ‘Oh, this person’s actually really good. She’s someone worth hiring, et cetera.’ That’s been super helpful in getting things done and doing maybe more esoteric, more personal things that I’ve been dying to do.

JB I mean, yes, I think validation is very instrumental. But, you know, there’s also you.

NDC Thank you, that’s very kind.

JB You’re the first Black woman to direct one of their movies. So I mean, people, we’re not handing these things out, honey. Right? I’m not gonna let you make it casual. Let’s not make it casual.

NDC Yes, but weirdly, I think because it was the pandemic as well, it felt very straightforward to me, because when I wasn’t having conversations with them, I was spiralling about the viability of life, the industry, this earth, humanity – I think as we all were.

JB Oh, why was that?

NDC So this thing called COVID-19…

JB But what I wouldn’t give for 2020? Because this year is like…

NDC This year, I mean, it’s crazy. But yeah, so basically Mary Livanos is my executive producer. We had maybe two or three phone conversations and it was as much her asking me as it was me asking her questions, because the last thing I want to do is be tortured inside of a studio experience. So I’m like, ‘Okay, what movies of yours do you actually like?’ Like, ‘Do we agree about what works and what doesn’t?’ Like, ‘What do you want to do with this film?’ And then eventually, she sends me a little bit of what they’re thinking for the movie. I kind of give her my thoughts like, ‘Oh, this is interesting. Here’s what I would do.’ Then she sent me an even longer 10 page outline of what the movie’s going to be. And then I’m like, ‘Okay, so here’s how I would strengthen these emotional bonds. Here’s the arc I see for the characters. Here is how I would execute these big set pieces. Here’s my vision, my style. Here are the lines that I would draw. Here’s the kind of score I see. I get really in depth because I’m basically like, ‘I want you to know what I want to do so that if you agree, we can be on the same page. And if you don’t, then we don’t have to talk anymore.’

JB Is the idea to also be able to bring the team that you worked with on Little Woods, bring the team that you worked with on Candyman with you? Like, is the idea ‘I’m growing as a filmmaker with this ensemble’?

NDC With some people for sure. Like my editor, Catrin Hedström. It’s funny though, because I get better, and as I get more in tune with what works and what doesn’t, I get better at choosing people. So more and more people have joined the Nia train. I find that really gratifying. It’s my favourite thing about filmmaking, just working with these people who are brilliant. So, yeah.

JB Bringing your family together. I really want to talk about [your new film] Hedda because when we talk about bringing family to make the thing, [actor] Tessa Thompson was with you on Little Woods. Tessa is also with you on The Marvels. And now Tessa is also going to be with you in Hedda. What was the story you were going to write? How did you see it?

NDC A hundred percent. I mean, you know, Hedda came to me when I was in London. I read the play and I fell in love with it. And then I saw a production and I was like, ‘Oh wait, that’s not what I saw when I read it.’ So I kind of wanted to do what I saw when I read it and also push it. So there’s a lot of subtext because the play is set in 1890s Norway and I kind of make all of that text, you know? So it’s Hedda Gabler, it’s very recognisable, but it’s also amplified. All the things that are in it, the humour, the sexiness, the thrillerish tension of it, that’s all amplified. So that’s really exciting for me to do, but that’s kind of what draws me into anything. It’s like, I’m connecting to this thing, I’m emotionally enthralled by something and I feel it transforming in my head into this thing that I need to project. And when I have that family, the projection starts to become more clear. It’s like, okay, ‘Tessa is playing Hedda, so I see that on the wall. And Lindsay Pugh is this amazing costume designer, I know how she works, I know what her style is, so that’s what the costumes are gonna be. And Cara Brower, production design is gonna happen like this. The more films I make, the more work I do, and the more crew that comes along with me, the clearer the projection becomes when I’m imagining what a movie is gonna be beyond writing the script for it.

JB Does that mean that you already have a sense or can see, I’m sure you can see shots, but do you see the end? Do you see the beginning? I know you haven’t started shooting yet, but do you see that?

NDC A hundred percent, and also I think I see it, but also the things I can’t see, I’m better equipped to find that. I’m less stressed about like, ‘Oh my God, I don’t know what it’s gonna look like.’ Now I’m like, ‘Oh no, I’m gonna work with Sean [Bobbitt], we’re gonna go to location,’ which I feel like is always the best way when you’re just in the location being like, ‘well, that’s an angle I haven’t seen before, that’s a shot I haven’t seen before. Here’s how we can use what’s around.’ So, I find that part of what makes films unique and special is not necessarily emulating something that you’ve done before or someone else has done, but getting brilliant minds together and figuring out a way to do things differently.