It’s 6PM on a chilly November evening, and storm Ciarán is rolling in. Meanwhile, another Irish whirlwind, that of the Hollywood kind, is getting comfy in London’s Corinthia Hotel. Donning a crisp white T-shirt and denim jeans, he’s accessorising the only way he knows how – with an unsquashable cheeky-chappy grin and a pair of arresting, aquamarine eyes (rapturously applauded on the internet) that seem to throw you into another world. This topsy-turvy, Oscar-worthy universe is exactly where the Dublin-born-and-raised actor, Barry Keoghan, also flings you every time he appears, indescribably, onto the big screen.

Now starring in Emerald Fennell’s psychological thriller, Saltburn, Keoghan is transported to a new, much deserved space: that of the leading man. And, an idiosyncratic one at that. His unmissable performance confirms his quirkier-than-cool leading man stature, and will hopefully bag him an Oscar. Not that the kaleidoscope of performances he’s delivered in supporting roles have done anything short of steal the show. His portrayal as the tragic, heart-breaking Dominic in The Banshees of Inisherin, for example, earned him a BAFTA – the third nomination of his career. Jumping into the Joker’s shoes is a demanding feat, but one Keoghan is still managing to put his own twist on alongside Pattinson in The Batman franchise. 2017’s Dunkirk saw him make waves in a Christopher Nolan classic, whilst his stint as a mind-controlling druig in the Marvel Universe’s Eternals became a career clincher in itself. Yup, he’s completely Barry-fied every role that’s come his way. Of course, most actors have the ability to make a character their own, that’s part and parcel of the job. But Keoghan hasn’t been spat out from a Hollywood assembly line. No drama school or acting class can claim a dime of his enigmatic presence. With every performance, he seems to lend the viewer a distorted looking glass through which you can see the character he becomes from an angle only Keoghan holds the power to distinguish.

Today, he’s joined by one of Hollywood’s hottest cinematic leads, Robert Pattinson, his friend and The Batman co-star. The pair match each other’s mischievous, boyish charm, and in the rare pauses where they’re not in stitches or finishing each other’s sentences, Pattinson and Keoghan put aside their awe for each other and get down to the nitty-gritty: What actually is Barry Keoghan’s plan? We’ll let them catch you up.

Barry Keoghan Cheers for this, bro. I’ve never done one of these things.

Robert Pattinson I’m also really bad at them. I realised five minutes ago there were prompt questions. I was trying to write down questions. I was like, ‘I don’t know what to ask.’

BK We should go with the questions that you wrote [laughs].

RP I was looking at it today and my first question was, ‘Do you have a plan?’ Like, what kind of question is that?

BK [Laughs] So how do we start this? Do you just ask me a question?

RP Let me just find the first question. I remember doing one of these ages ago with [actor] Jamie Bell. I just started being like, ‘Okay, I don’t want to talk about your work. I only want to talk about your personal life. All I want to know is, what are your secrets?’ [Laughs] I was watching a bunch of your stuff last night and I noticed what I really like about your style. I’m just curious if you’re doing it on purpose or if you’re conscious of it. It kind of reminded me of when you’re watching a boxer and there’s that constant movement. It’s really engaging because it’s almost like when you’re saying a line, it’s in contrast to the movement and it makes it really unpredictable. Is that just a natural thing?

BK That’s ADHD Rob [laughs]. I guess that’s feckin’, you know, I try to spot things like that as well and try to counter it. It’s kind of like the little ticks that we have, aren’t they? But some of them work for some roles and they kind of add a layer to this unpredictability. For The Banshees of Inisherin it works because you can really fall into them. It’s not really a conscious thing. I guess it’s energy, man. I know I was messing around saying it but it would be the ADHD as well. I’m feckin’ constantly moving and stuff like that.

RP I always find if you’re doing a scene and if you end up realising, ‘Oh, I’ve stayed really still’, and you’re kind of fossilising, I suddenly get so conscious and there’s something interesting about keeping that constant roll. I hadn’t actually noticed it before but then I was like, ‘Oh, maybe that’s why.’ Socially, I think that’s one of the things I like most about you.

BK Socially I’m like that as well, at events and stuff. I’m really socially awkward, man. I can’t look at people. I start scratching my hair or feeling really uncomfy and that. But when I’m acting, you don’t really feel that, you kind of have the licence to be silly.

RP Do you think that’s changed as you’ve got more known? Do you think you’ve become more or less socially awkward?

BK More socially awkward. Have you become more socially awkward?

RP Oh, yeah. I can barely speak English anymore.

BK [Laughs] ‘Hi my name is Rob.’

RP I think also a lot of the people who are drawn to acting when they’re younger are people who really like bullshitting and you have no qualms about bullshitting to anybody. One second, my alarm is going off.

*Rob runs through his house to turn off the alarm*

BK [Laughs] This is probably my best interview already.

RP Once you start getting known, then it’s like, ‘Oh, my entire social ability was based on just making stuff up all the time.’ And now, there’s consequences for making stuff up.

BK Do you know what it is as well? It’s getting compliments. I find getting compliments hard, man. It’s like, ‘Well done in that movie!’ And then it’s just, they stare at you, and you’re like, ‘Okay, what do I say now?’ You know what I mean? It’s stuff like that, and it’s beautiful and whatever but these social settings are not natural. You don’t know what to do. I find that I’ve become a lot more socially awkward, and I’m kind of starting to own it now, getting in and out of events, you know what I mean?

RP I thought by saying you’re going to own it you were gonna be like, ‘I’m going to just be a really awkward person socially.’

BK Like ‘Why is that dude staring over at the wall there? Why has he got a straight face?’

RP ‘He’s been scratching his head for the last two hours’ [laughs]. I think that probably works in your favour, as well. If you just went to a party and sat there, just staring at the wall, people would be like ‘Barry’s so intense. It’s incredible.’

BK ‘What an artist. He brings it to every performance.’ So back to my plan. What is my plan?

RP [Laughs] Because I looked at this interview you did. I don’t know how long ago it was, but it was in Ireland. They were saying that you had a plan which you seemed to have achieved in about three months. Your entire plan from childhood. Do you still have a plan?

BK Yeah, man. The plan is to become a leading man. I got the chance there recently to lead a movie and challenge myself. You’re perfect at that, Rob. I admire you for that. You can do that. I wanted to see, can I do it? Because I’ve come into movies supporting and doing scenes and I love it. It’s whatever the role requires. But I wanted to see, could I lead a movie? Could I keep the audience engaged? So, that was my plan. Now it’s like, can I continue to do that? Can I continue to lead? But it’s to work with good filmmakers, man, and good projects. I have a list of directors that tend to knock around on these interviews and by saying their names I try to use the law of attraction [to make that happen]. But I really have not ticked off a lot of directors on that. You know, like Christopher Nolan, Yorgos Lanthimos, and Chloé Zhao. So, I’ve got to make a feckin’ new list, man. I really do.

RP That’s one of the things I was going to ask. When you were younger, what was it about certain directors that drew you to them? Like Yorgos, what had he done before The Killing of a Sacred Deer?

BK The Lobster and…

RP …Oh yeah course, The Lobster.

BK It was sort of that Wes Anderson thing. Like Yorgos, these people create these worlds and universes that you’re sort of like, ‘I’d love to be just in that for a day.’ Even though it was all based at the hotel, you believe that this universe existed. I just wanted to be part of that and play a character in that world. And that’s what I studied, I studied The Lobster for The Killing of a Sacred Deer. I studied how to speak, and Yorgos never said I should speak in monotone or I should speak in a certain rhythm but it was based on his previous film. That’s what spoke to me for Yorgos. And Chris Nolan, I mean, you work for Chris as well. How was that for you? Like what was the pull there? Just Chris Nolan [laughs].

RP I loved it. I loved the whole process with him, I love the secrecy about the projects. I loved having to go around to his house to read it.

BK Did you get brought into a room [in his house] to read the script?

RP It’s amazing and hardly anybody gets to see the entire script. It just feels like, God I’m involved in something important.

BK He’s got this little Nintendo kind of screen that he looks at for the monitor and it’s sort of like, wow, you judge everything on that. You know what I mean?

RP It’s going in and out of reception as well. I remember when he was shooting helicopters blowing stuff up and you can’t even see it [mimics looking at the tiny screen].

BK The reflection is so bad on it as well. But no, it’s a testament to him knowing what he wants. But yeah, I mean, that was sort of the pull for me, for Yorgos, and Chris Nolan as well. You know, they just create these universes, man, that you just want to be part of.

RP Doing a lead as opposed to supporting, do you feel different doing it?

BK Yeah. For me, it was the first time as well. I can’t mention the project [because of the SAG-AFTRA strikes], but it’s the stamina. I had a baby, you know, during it. I didn’t have a baby personally, obviously [laughs], but I wanted to look after my baby boy. So, there was a stamina required for filming and it kind of gave me a sense and an appreciation of everyone else on the gig because you come in, and you do your part when you are in a supporting role. But the director’s here 24/7, the first assistant director is there 24/7. The lead that you’re supporting is there 24/7. [So playing the lead] gave me a bigger picture. [For this film] I split my character into five pieces; like character one, two, three, four, and five. One would be the start of the movie. Two, would be halfway through the start through to the middle. Three, would be the middle. So, I was giving myself an arc. I was playing five different characters almost.

RP That’s interesting.

BK Yeah, I wanted all these characters, the same character, to be different so that there was this constant rainbow.

RP Did you just come up with that? Did you go to acting schools or anything?

BK No acting school. No RADA. No nothing. I didn’t get to do any of that. I’m not against it or anything. Again, they’re great for what they’re great for, but I don’t want to be trained or tamed – tamed is a very strong word – but I want to have that authentic kind of thing and keep that. I feel you lose that with every gig you do, you become a little trained within yourself and you become a bit structured. I want to keep that loose and fluid thing going on that you don’t train – that unorthodox kind of thing to it. Non-actors have that, right? They have that for the first few projects and then they realise they’re an actor and they start acting and learning their lines – even though you should learn your lines.

RP You start learning your lines and shit – that’s where it goes downhill [laughs]. Do you get nervous?

BK I do, man. I do, but again I’m going to sound cheesy and feckin’ whatever, but when you’re playing the character, you can’t be nervous because you’re technically playing someone else and that. But I remember doing our scene and I was nervous for that, man. Getting to do it with yourself makes it a lot easier, it depends who you’re working with. I’m certainly a fanboy and I certainly get caught up in that, but that kind of all goes when you get down to the core of what it is you’re trying to do. Would you get nervous?

RP Yeah, but it’s weird. I almost get more nervous when I don’t feel nervous. That’s why whenever I start a new job… I mean it doesn’t really help that I’m hardly doing any jobs at the moment, because I wish I was doing more.

BK [Wags his finger] I hope you’re not working right now.

RP [Laughs] I just feel like now I’m back to the start again. I know the next time I do something, I’ll be like, I can’t remember how to do any of this stuff. It’s kind of nice to go into it as an amateur every time and be like, ‘This is a huge mountain to climb.’ It’s like being a total fake again.

BK It’s like that structure has gone, right? That familiarity? I feel being familiar with this stuff is dangerous because you kind of lose spontaneity. You lose a lot of that instinctive thing that we love and the directors love, obviously.
RP The nice thing about the job as well, in general, is that if something worked in a previous movie and you’re like, ‘Oh everyone said that was good’ and instinctively you go, well, everyone liked that – I want to do that again. And then next time round, everyone just says it’s shit and you’re like, what the fuck?

BK I know exactly what you mean.

RP You’re forced into reinvention. I was also noticing from watching your stuff last night,
you’re really good at accents. Do you work with accent coaching?

BK Thanks, man. I do, yeah. Do you ever see when you’re out and people are like, ‘Oh, you’re an actor, do an American accent.’ And it’s like, ‘Feck off would you?’ I can’t do an American accent or an English accent on cue. It takes me a lot of time man, because I’m quite nervous as well, to jump into an accent. But I work a lot with an accent coach and I tend to use a plastic spoon all the time because it makes the jaw muscles work. Being from Dublin, you tend to not finish your own sentences sometimes and you tend to not enunciate. I’m not speaking for all Dubs, but you know what I mean? When you get into an accent, I want to be able to pronounce everything, and then I can strip it back.

RP So you practice with a spoon in your mouth?

BK Plastic spoon, yeah. I always bust my mouth open [laughs].

RP That’s amazing. That’s such a good idea. I’ve never heard that before.

BK I find with something in the mouth, you’re working that extra hard because we get relaxed here [points at cheeks] and we start to mumble and whatever. So, with an accent, I think you need to really go for it.

RP That’s interesting.

BK Yeah, I wanted all these characters, the same character, to be different so that there was this constant rainbow.

RP Did you just come up with that? Did you go to acting schools or anything?

BK No acting school. No RADA. No nothing. I didn’t get to do any of that. I’m not against it or anything. Again, they’re great for what they’re great for, but I don’t want to be trained or tamed – tamed is a very strong word – but I want to have that authentic kind of thing and keep that. I feel you lose that with every gig you do, you become a little trained within yourself and you become a bit structured. I want to keep that loose and fluid thing going on that you don’t train – that unorthodox kind of thing to it. Non-actors have that, right? They have that for the first few projects and then they realise they’re an actor and they start acting and learning their lines – even though you should learn your lines.

RP You start learning your lines and shit – that’s where it goes downhill [laughs]. Do you get nervous?

BK I do, man. I do, but again I’m going to sound cheesy and feckin’ whatever, but when you’re playing the character, you can’t be nervous because you’re technically playing someone else and that. But I remember doing our scene and I was nervous for that, man. Getting to do it with yourself makes it a lot easier, it depends who you’re working with. I’m certainly a fanboy and I certainly get caught up in that, but that kind of all goes when you get down to the core of what it is you’re trying to do. Would you get nervous?

RP Yeah, but it’s weird. I almost get more nervous when I don’t feel nervous. That’s why whenever I start a new job… I mean it doesn’t really help that I’m hardly doing any jobs at the moment, because I wish I was doing more.

BK [Wags his finger] I hope you’re not working right now.

RP [Laughs] I just feel like now I’m back to the start again. I know the next time I do something, I’ll be like, I can’t remember how to do any of this stuff. It’s kind of nice to go into it as an amateur every time and be like, ‘This is a huge mountain to climb.’ It’s like being a total fake again.

BK It’s like that structure has gone, right? That familiarity? I feel being familiar with this stuff is dangerous because you kind of lose spontaneity. You lose a lot of that instinctive thing that we love and the directors love, obviously.

RP The nice thing about the job as well, in general, is that if something worked in a previous movie and you’re like, ‘Oh everyone said that was good’ and instinctively you go, well, everyone liked that – I want to do that again. And then next time round, everyone just says it’s shit and you’re like, what the fuck?

BK I know exactly what you mean.

RP You’re forced into reinvention. I was also noticing from watching your stuff last night, you’re really good at accents. Do you work with accent coaching?

BK Thanks, man. I do, yeah. Do you ever see when you’re out and people are like, ‘Oh, you’re an actor, do an American accent.’ And it’s like, ‘Feck off would you?’ I can’t do an American accent or an English accent on cue. It takes me a lot of time man, because I’m quite nervous as well, to jump into an accent. But I work a lot with an accent coach and I tend to use a plastic spoon all the time because it makes the jaw muscles work. Being from Dublin, you tend to not finish your own sentences sometimes and you tend to not enunciate. I’m not speaking for all Dubs, but you know what I mean? When you get into an accent, I want to be able to pronounce everything, and then I can strip it back.

RP So you practice with a spoon in your mouth?

BK Plastic spoon, yeah. I always bust my mouth open [laughs].

RP That’s amazing. That’s such a good idea. I’ve never heard that before.

BK I find with something in the mouth, you’re working that extra hard because we get relaxed here [points at cheeks] and we start to mumble and whatever. So, with an accent, I think you need to really go for it.

RP I need to do that, just in reality. A lot of the time, especially if I’m out at night, it’s like I’m speaking a different language. I’m just getting worse and worse every year. I can’t be bothered to move my tongue [laughs]. When you were a kid, did you think about being an actor? Did you want to be an actor when you were a kid? Or what age were you?

BK I didn’t, man. I wanted to be a boxer. I wanted to be a football player – I wanted to be every feckin’ thing like that. Then, I started to do some acting in school to get off class. There was this production of Oliver Twist and I remember seeing it – it was on a stage full of like 600 people and I was just drawn to it, I wanted to get involved in it. So, I got involved in the school plays. We did the school plays at Christmas, and there’s lots of people, and you get all these laughs and I was like, feck man, this is insane, this is a great feeling – you can’t necessarily see anyone and you’re being someone else. You’re also getting time off class and that. Then, they took that away from me because I misbehaved and whatever. I didn’t know what to do. I thought my acting career was over. Then, I seen a notice in a shop window down by the boxing club and I just went for it. I was just drawn to the whole thing of pretending to be someone else, which was great. Then, obviously the perks were amazing and fun. But did you set out to be an actor?

RP No, not at all. It’s kind of a similar thing. I didn’t even do it in school. How did you misbehave? How did you get kicked out of the theatre?

BK I loved misbehaving. I was the class clown, basically. I’d do accents, I’d mimic people and I’d mimic the teachers. They’d be like, ‘Don’t do that, Barry!’ And I’d be like, ‘Don’t do that, Barry!’ Everyone just got a right laugh from it. I wasn’t a bad kid. I was just not concentrating on the subject. I’d be making slingshots from my pencils and thinking I’m Bart Simpson and shit. Crazy, man.

RP When you’re talking about being starstruck by people, one of my favourite experiences with you was when we were at that party and you thought that guy was the actor Josh Brolin. That was the best thing I’ve ever seen. You were literally like, ‘Oh, come on, man. I’m an actor too. Don’t be like that!’ He was like, ‘I’m not Josh Brolin.’

BK [Laughs] I was like, ‘You are Josh Brolin.’ That was crazy, but I was convinced that dude was Josh Brolin. He just rocked up and he was like, ‘Here’s a drink for everyone.’

RP He was the caterer or something.

BK I was like, ‘Rob, meet Josh Brolin.’

RP [Laughs] I was like, I don’t think it is him. But is it strange when you reflect on how you’ve achieved your childhood dream?

BK Yeah, man, it is. I wouldn’t say it’s strange. Again, to bring it back to me and you Rob, obviously we can’t mention it, but acting with you was a surreal moment for me. That was just iconic. I was like, ‘Wow,’ that was a childhood dream in itself.

RP It is funny when you suddenly have a little flash when you’re actually in it and doing stuff. It’s like… I remember it’s so…You’re not thinking about the macro idea at all.

BK There’s so much stuff to think about. It was more when we were left alone. I was just looking at you, and you were like [stands up and imitates Rob in his Batman suit].

RP I remember having to get my COVID mask off but I had to tie it round the ears.

BK I’d say something you wouldn’t hear, and you’d be like [imitates Rob turning around] ‘Huh?’ It was moments like that or when people were stepping out of the set, you just took a look. It’s always when nobody is in sight, the cameras and whatever. I’ve had a few of them.

RP It’s funny. I was thinking the other day that sometimes when you’re just living in LA, I’m literally like, how has this happened?

BK I know. You see the Hollywood sign. That’s the thing with LA, I want to build that
relationship back up again with the romance I hold towards Los Angeles because I’ve kind of lost it. But I want to get back out there and reconnect with it in that way – to remind you of the Paul Newmans and that airy kind of thing it has.

RP It’s funny. I was thinking it makes me quite sad when you see younger people coming to LA now, and they’re so familiar with all the aspects of it because of social media. When I went for the first time in 2004 or something, it’s so crazy to come from England and just be like, I can’t actually believe this exists.

BK Now, it’s like you arrive at Sweet Greens and you order from the app.

RP Yeah, exactly.

BK That romantic thing has gone from it for me.

RP I still kind of get it. But it’s funny, I remember there used to be – which I really loved about it – a kind of cross-generational thing in how people socialised in LA, which was very different from other cities.That kind of changed a bit. All the old actors would be hanging out with young people. There would be so much interaction. People would be at the same parties. It’s still occasionally like that. It’s kind of…It does feel a little bit different. I remember the first time you went to Chateau Marmont and that’s like…

BK It’s so old school. It’s crazy. Keanu Reeves is just sitting in the back there having breakfast. The rusty tops and all that. It’s the little things like that for me. But now that’s all very thought out and purposely put there.

RP [Laughs] It’s like fake rust.

BK Yeah, it’s fake rust. You’re rubbing it off. You’re like, what’s this shit?

RP Are there any directors who you’re excited about working with? Who’s on the list?

BK I’ve got to work with amazing directors.I know you worked with the Safdies. I’d love to work with the Safdie brothers and Barry Jenkins. There’s quite a few. Lynne Ramsey, I really love her as well. But I’d love to work with the Safdies, man. I feckin’ loved Good Time. That was unreal, man. Just electrifying from you as well. Chris Nolan, I don’t mind working with directors again if you get me because the first time…I know I did appreciate it but this time I think I’d be even more appreciative.

RP How old were you when you did Dunkirk [with Christopher Nolan]?

BK I think I was like 16 or 17. I was young, man. I remember…

RP [Laughs] No you weren’t. How old are you now? What are you talking about?

BK [Laughs] That’s me playing up for the magazine. I was 28. No, I was 21.

RP We went from 16 to 21 like a jump. I was actually quite surprised. You’re 31, yeah? I always thought you were like 25.

BK Yeah. Let’s just say for this, I am 25.

RP I look at so many other people. I’m like, so many people must be lying about their ages because I seem to age so much quicker than everybody else.

BK No you age good, man.

RP No, but my actual age. I’m old.

BK You’re not old. What are you? 41, 42?

RP No, I’m 37.

BK You’re 37. Wait, that is old [laughs].

RP I just still have the mentality of a 20-year-old. I just stopped mentally developing
on purpose. Whose opinion on your performances matters to you, if any at all?

BK You know, I’ve chatted to someone about this, I never want to do
something where I feel I have to explain what I’ve done. I want to do it to the point where whether or not you like it, I don’t want to go on shows and tell you what to feel, or how to feel towards it, or that it’s right. I just want someone to feel. I want someone to have an experience with it, to relate, to ask questions, to leave the cinema, and not feckin’ know what they’ve seen almost, and probably have to watch it again. But people’s opinions, it’s just opinions. I love when someone can really dissect it and tell me about a similar experience they had – they’re the kind of opinions that matter to me. Or some people might say, ‘You know, I really didn’t feel good after that film.’ So, weirdly, that kind of stuff I like.

RP Have you ever had an experience where you felt bad after a job?

BK No, just tired. I always feel I can give more. I bet you can as well. But then again, I’m trying to hold that back a little as well, because I want to save some for other things. I feel like with every job, we burn ourselves out a little. We kind of scratch ourselves off, or we chip ourselves down, and we kind of sell ourselves a little. It’s a question I ask all the time, I’m like, ‘Why?’ Obviously, we’re doing it for the movie and for that purpose, but I’m sort of like, am I a sellout really? You know what I mean? I’m getting so vulnerable and emotionally open in front of people, you know, for what? Shit, this has gone deep.

RP [Laughs] Do you still feel like when the film is done, you’re connected to it? I used to really struggle to watch myself. Now, once it’s finished, I feel quite disconnected. I mean, not disconnected in a bad way, but it’s kind of like if…

BK Yeah, just drained. I try to give what I gave on the first day, on the last day. I always try to keep that in mind and that’s what, playing the lead for the first time, I was like I’m gonna give the exact same energy I gave on the first day for the last day. Just give it my all, because sometimes, you know the end is coming and you can kind of be half in, half out. But that scene may fall in the middle of the movie. So you gotta… here’s me telling you, ‘ You gotta…’ [laughs]. But no, when I’m done, I’m done. I hate ADR (Automated dialogue replacement), I hate all that shit.

RP You hate ADR? I kind of love ADR.

BK I feckin’ hate it.

RP I used to not really understand it. But you can shift stuff so much.

BK You can change a whole movie with one line.

RP Yeah and it’s interesting because it’s like a little puzzle. If you’re kind of changing one line and you’re looking at the shape of your mouth and you’re like, ‘How can I pronounce this differently to change the entire plot of the movie?’

BK Looking to change plots with one line. I love that, Rob.

RP And then just try to do it under the director’s nose.What was I gonna say…

BK ‘What’s your plan?’ [Laughs]

RP [Laughs] When I was watching your stuff yesterday, I don’t know if I’m just completely projecting it onto you, but when you’re working, it looks like you’re enjoying it. I know that some actors can be really enjoying it, but it doesn’t look enjoyable when they’re on screen. But for some reason, it looks like you’re enjoying it. And I think it’s very…I think it’s one of the most engaging parts of how you are on film.

BK Yeah, I get what you’re saying. I’m going to sound like an absolute douche here when I say this, but I think it’s about being present. When we’re present, we tend to enjoy it a lot. That feeling, that unpredictability, not knowing what’s coming next – even though we kind of secretly do know. I think that’s what you’re seeing. That sounds really douchey. That’s what you’re seeing is me being present, Rob. It’s not me enjoying it.

RP Do you feel that you do though? And once you start a take, do you feel that you actually know what’s going to come out of it?

BK No, man. I love that. I love the control part. I’m going to wait until I’m ready to say my line, or I’m going to wait until the time’s right. We don’t know what can happen between action and cut. Let’s say everything is structured up until action and after cut, just that middle bit is like we’re floating. It’s like, whoa. That’s what I kind of feel like, if that makes sense. I feckin’ love it, man – that’s a high in itself.

RP It’s weird, I guess it’s the only way to be able to have some sort of technical ability, but then to be able to be quite loose with it. I mean, some people have it instinctively, but the more jobs you do, you’re just like, that’s the most useful thing to learn. When a director will say to me, can you do this specific thing, all I know how to do is just roll the dice again. Just do another take.

BK I hate when they do that. ‘Can you tickle your neck again?’ I didn’t even mean to do that. You’re making me self-conscious, and I’m not going to do it.

RP ‘I’m not going to do it, but I’ll do it in a different accent though.’

BK [Laughs] ‘I’m going to do the neck thing in a different accent, okay?’ We have to hit certain beats and if something’s good, keep it. I love doing something different every feckin’ time. I keep swearing on this. I’m sorry.

RP How do you want to be remembered?

BK Just remembered not for me, but for my characters almost. I’d hate to be remembered as ‘Barry as the actor’. I want someone to put my character name before me, if that makes sense.

RP Yeah, doing a job where you’re constantly not knowing what’s coming next, like whether it’s all just going to end the whole time, it’s nice that it keeps you energised but I literally just think the longer I stay in this industry, the more I’m thinking, ‘Now I’m really pushing it. I’m right out on the cliff.’

BK I don’t think that’s the case for you. I mean, you’re really selective in what you do. Is that what you mean when you’re pushing it?

RP Yeah, you just never know. I’ve literally seen it happen to so many people. Suddenly, you’re just not in favour anymore. I don’t even think about being remembered. I literally think about being remembered in six months [laughs] – let alone after I’m fucking dead. I just want casting directors to remember me. Remember who I am!

BK ‘Hey, hey. It’s me!’ I kind of agree with you there. I’d hate to work just to work. I have to do it for a certain reason. I don’t want to ever just fill the gaps. I loan myself and we loan ourselves to it entirely. I think we chip ourselves away and we show so much of ourselves that I want to save that. I also want to step into new challenges and play these different characters I didn’t think I could play. With that, I think it takes being selective, and not overdoing it. For me, it’s about not rushing in. I don’t ever want to rush in. Even if they don’t remember me, it’s like you will remember me. You will.

RP Is there anything you feel you want to share that you haven’t been able to communicate in previous interviews? Or is there one question you always wish you were asked?

BK What’s my plan? [Laughs] The plan is to stay mystique. Not consciously staying mystique, but just touching on what we said, just showing myself; different versions of me through different characters. But yeah, Rob, that was lovely. I’ll see you next week.