Brixton-born Samuel Ross is almost an impossible man to introduce. From graphic designer and product designer, to fashion designer and architect, not to mention painter and sculptor, the 32-year-old has the ability to shapeshift and dream into existence whatever he wishes to be. He’s soft-spoken and painfully intelligent, the latter not a surprise for a man who by the age of just 25-years-old had already launched cult fashion brand A-COLD-WALL*, and become Virgil Abloh’s first design assistant, working across various projects from DONDA to Off-White for a multitude of years. Through an insatiable curiosity and continuous determination, Samuel has since continued to shape, and re-shape, the cultural fabric of our society under the polymathic lens he never fails to view the world through. Here, Toni-Blaze Ibekwe gets to know the man leading the next generation of Black creatives into a boundless new dimension.

Toni-Blaze Ibekwe I’m so excited to chat to you. Honestly, I just think you’re so important for our generation and for people that look like us. So, tell us about the Wonderland shoot. How fabulous was it?

Samuel Ross The shoot was incredible. It felt good to collaborate with yourself, Toni. It really felt succinct when we were working together. There are so many elements in this cover shoot that I’ve never shown before to the press or to the public – like the watches, the MacBooks I built both my companies on, my personal camera, my archival vintage references and my own personal A-COLD-WALL* pieces. It felt good to open the studios up a little bit [so people can see] how I actually work because it’s maybe not as traditional as some people think. So much of it has almost been like a moving studio, so to bring the moving studio into the Wonderland shoot felt good.

TBI When we think about your accolades – I am listing them out, honey. You have the title of ‘Dr Samuel Ross’ by the University of Westminster in 2021 for your achievements in fashion and design. Your other accolades include becoming a member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) for services to fashion and a British Fashion Award amongst many others. There are so many facets to you, Samuel, as a person. When you think about your journey, how do you feel you’ve been able to maintain not losing yourself within that? Is A-COLD-WALL* 10 years next year?

SR Next year will be 10 years, yeah.

TBI It’s only going to get bigger and better, so I’m happy we caught this before then.

SR Yeah, same! Before the big 10. Do you know what it is? I was really fortunate to learn and be around people who were very disciplined as outliers. My roadmap was assisting with V [Virgil Abloh] when he was working on [Kanye West’s Design Agency] DONDA. Also, assisting the DONDA team across Kanye A.P.C., or dropping samples off to [fashion designer] Shayne Oliver’s team at Hood By Air almost a decade ago when they needed to shoot in [American fashion designer] Rick Owens’ apartment. Whether it was just being around other figures like [studio founder] JJJJound or [American fashion designer] Jerry Lorenzo when they were establishing their own practices, there was this respect and reverence we had for creativity as a whole. There was always this need not to just express ourselves, but to actually contribute to a field. It’s one thing having good mentors and being able to see how they engage with the sector, balancing who they are but then also balancing the right way to manoeuvre as outliers, then the other thing is just really down to making sure that you understand your career is a huge part of who you are, it’s 90% of what we all spend our time on, but it’s not necessarily who you are. It’s a part of you, but it’s not all of you. As your career matures, also remember what it’s like when you didn’t have any of this – when you were sketching or drawing or doing, for you, styling in your bedroom. Keeping a really close foot on the ground and in reality has really helped me always stay conscious of how much work there is to do for other people, let alone yourself. It’s one thing getting yourself through the door, it’s another thing making sure that a group of people who deserve to be there can also get their foot in the door.

TBI You’ve got that PJ money, Samuel [laughs].

SR Fashion changed my life. It took me from relative poverty to becoming very comfortable. But it wasn’t the pursuit of becoming wealthy, it was the pursuit of contributing to a field. If your goal isn’t to drench yourself in riches, you don’t really get distracted because it’s about creativity and the quality of an idea; the riches follow creativity.

TBI I wouldn’t say it’s bittersweet, but I think as Black creatives I do feel like there’s a responsibility you have in terms of representation. It’s almost always at the back of your mind, isn’t it? You think about how you move in these spaces, how you present yourself, how you communicate creativity and even how you hold yourself in a room or react to a situation. I think deep down it almost humbles you because you know your image and your visual representation in this industry is so much bigger than what you’re doing right now. I think that’s why it’s so great to have you in this issue.

SR You touched on something really important there with the representation thing. I remember studying and being in graphic design and product design and seeing that there were no people who looked like us who were documented well in the field at all. It was similar in fashion at that point as well, apart from one or two red herrings across a hundred years. No one was documented. I was frustrated because I knew that we had all these interests in the arts and creativity, which were relatively developed and quite sophisticated, but there wasn’t an outlet, specifically at this time in Black Britain for that to exist. So, as you were saying, our roles now feel quite significant because we don’t need more people to fulfil the stories that have already been told about what it is to be a person of colour – that’s already very heavy in music as it is. There’s more of a necessity for people to be telling nuanced, new stories and eclectic stories in the whole creative sector. We don’t need any more people communicating certain values that maybe aren’t the best for our people at this stage, as well. There’s so much space for people if they could remove themselves from the one identity that is tied to music and Rap. That’s fine, let the rappers be the rappers and kill it and do their thing. But we need more people in art, in design, fashion, architecture, engineering, the industrial sector, agriculture and in property. There’s so much we need our people’s attention on. Hopefully, by having a slightly different archetype, people can see that they can also do whatever they want to do and they don’t have to just take one direction.

TBI What you’re saying in terms of being this multi-faceted Black creative makes me think about growing up in South London. I know us South people wave our flags, heavy.

SR Yeah!

TBI But I do think there’s a special energy when you grow up in South that if you don’t get out and see the world you can get trapped in the culture of just being in that area. I remember even when I went to Central Saint Martins I think on my course, which was Fashion Communication, I was the only Black person in my year. The year below me was [photographer] Campbell Addy and then [stylist] Ib Kamara. Above me was Ms. Carrie Stacks who’s a creative musician. It’s so interesting to hear you talk about, even within that graphic space, there not being that many people that looked like you. I wanted to touch on your parents who are quite academic. How do you feel that helped shape who you are as a person?

SR I’m really grateful that I had parents who are educated and inquisitive and were really invested in their children. That’s just luck of the draw and that’s why I always beat this drum of learning, reading and education because the reality is to take a bedroom idea to the world stage…It’s all possible, but you have to learn the codes of an industry and of a discipline. You don’t have to be from it, but you need to learn the code and how the game works. The only way to do that is if you read, learn and study. It’s not really a capability thing, it’s more like an application thing and they kind of drilled that into my head.

TBI And how was growing up as a teenager in South within that space? How hard was that in terms of your friendship group? You know how you have that one friend who you know is gonna go far and all the mandem just leave him alone because he’s the one?

SR That’s a really interesting thing. I moved from South and I grew up in Northampton. It was the same type of scenario where we were in the ends. A lot of friends who I grew up with went the other way, that was normal. Most people ended up becoming incarcerated at various levels. Some of it was what you could expect and with others it was some really quite graphic and macabre cases, but these are the people that I literally grew up with and spent my formative years with. But as you said, it’s funny actually, because when photographer Gabriel [Moses] came to shoot my home about two years ago for Converse, some of my friends I grew up with were there from the ends. They were saying to Gabriel, ‘We always knew Samuel was a bit different. We didn’t really understand but we just let him be. Even though he was with us he always would dress in a slightly different way and then he started selling counterfeit clothes when everyone else was selling paraphernalia or substances.’ There was always this different perspective tied to fashion, creativity and style, but I also knew that I wanted to eventually leave.

TBI I think it’s so important to have that attitude in terms of not shying away from where you’re from. Remember we were talking about how Virgil was quite that character in terms of the fact he was on the streets, you know.

SR He was everywhere.

TBI I kind of want to push into that journey in terms of how you guys were able to connect and how you were able to track him down. How did it happen? Was it through Pyrex Vision? I remember that era of Pyrex Vision or like the old school Karmaloop.

SR That was the third wave of streetwear and I’d say we’ve just come out of the fourth wave recently. It’s so important that you mentioned that because a lot of people don’t understand how nuanced all of this that exists actually is. We’re talking 17 years of internet culture and streetwear culture. From Karmaloop to LRG Clothing, all the way through to Pyrex Vision; all the way through to A$AP Mob on Tumblr and A$AP Ferg and them lot doing their thing; all the way through to Glyn Brown and Justine Skye on Tumblr. This is a whole generation.

TBI Even when Venus X the DJ was in A$AP and everyone’s like, ‘Who is this girl?’ You know, British culture was so influenced by Americans. I remember being young and just the whole energy in that time was different.

SR It was so special.

TBI Guerrilla tactics would happen and people were out there like, ‘Yeah, we’re going to show you an opposite way. We’re gonna show you that luxury doesn’t just live within certain spaces and look a certain way.’ It just felt like it was this boom of newness.

SR And energy.

TBI I don’t know if you feel that newness anymore.

SR I haven’t felt it in a while because it wasn’t, at that stage, so transactional and commodified. It was actually an artistic movement happening mainly in LA, and New York, but as another creative capital city, we were also seeing that and it resonated with us. I remember sitting in my office in Leicester, I just graduated, got a good degree, got scouted and went straight into an industrial design company. I think I stayed there for about a year and I’d work ridiculous hours. Nothing’s really changed, to be honest! I just work like crazy, and I remember looking on HypeBeast, Tumblr and Complex and seeing what was happening. This is again that era of Shayne’s Hood By Air, a self-produced pop-up with Kevin Amato book signing, and Jalil Peraza getting listed on Complex’s 20 under 25 list. I remember thinking, ‘I need to leave this office,’ and I also remember thinking, ‘I need to leave this entire sector because I’m in the wrong one.’ And I’m thinking, ‘This is fashion, this is a completely different discipline and I need to leave because something is happening now. These people look like me. I’ve already got my little t-shirt brand in Leicester, I’m already doing graffiti at night and I’m making beats. These are my people. I need to be with my people, they just don’t know that I’m one of them yet.’

TBI Or exist.

SR Or exist! The middle of Leicester is light years away. So then I started to look and research, ‘Who are prolific designers?’ It didn’t matter if they were African, American, British or European – where were they? I could only find Virgil because he was a creative director and that discipline was still tied to what I had studied. I tried to get in touch with Virgil through every single mechanism possible – every single Mailer inbox, Tumblr, his blog THE BRILLIANCE, Pyrex Vision’s website, RSVP Gallery’s website – I was just emailing all of these different avenues and I couldn’t get through. One day I saw his Instagram; he had about 70,000 followers at this point. I just started liking one or two of his photos and he happened to be on his phone at that point and he started liking a series of photos that I had on my profile. It had a mix of work and some personal bits and pieces and a link to my website in the bio; he might have even just Googled my name and found the website and he emailed me formally. This email conversation went viral last year because I posted some of the screenshots from it on socials and it was in a really formal style. It was like, ‘Hi Samuel, I’ve come across your work, it looks incredible. We’re Building the DONDA team and we’d love to see more of your portfolio.’ I was sitting having lunch in Leicester in an industrial design studio and within two days I put my notice in and I moved to Croydon into my aunt’s spare room. I got another job in the city so I’d work during the day at an advertising agency in Farringdon and then I worked all night for Virgil and for DONDA. That’s how I lived for about six months before going full time with Virgil. Some of the earliest work we were doing was literally for Hood By Air’s Shayne. Shayne was the lead and we would report to him by email with new concepts and designs. He’d brief us on what he was looking at for the season. We started developing Hood By Air, well particular seasons. If you go onto my Instagram now, my first post is print graphics that I developed for Hood by Air SS14. I still keep a lot of this stuff up. After I was working more digitally, I started to travel with V into Europe. So from Paris, for example, there are still images up from Kanye’s A.P.C. season. I try to document as much of this as possible. I think the beautiful thing about that story is that it just shows you that Rome wasn’t built in a day – very cliché saying – but also people don’t realise there’s no ‘I’ in team and you need a lot of people around you to prop up an idea to get to the finish line. As a creative, you can be going over one thing in your head constantly and it just takes one random person in your team to come to you and be like, ‘What about this?’ And you’re like, ‘Wait, how did my brain not even…?’

TBI And it opens up. When we all heard the news of V passing it rocked our worlds as creatives. When I talk about these conversations around race, it’s not because that’s the main thing we should be talking about. It’s just such an important conversation to keep still having because I don’t think people understand how much you, especially, and V and all of these cultural figures mean to us as Black creatives. Before, there wasn’t anyone operating at that level – not to say that his life equated to what he was doing.

SR I know what you mean. I remember sitting in the office before meeting V, and this is before V was V, he would have been about my age when I met him, about 32. I remember thinking, ‘Where do we go as people of colour in this industry because there is no North Star?’ Also, 12 years ago [Ghanaian-British architect] David Adjaye wasn’t the David Adjaye we know now as well. This is a long time ago, really. At that point, I was grateful to even find another Black person who had the same professional interests that I had and I think that, as you rightly said, for the generations now it can feel like there’s a lot of silent in fighting and cloak-and-dagger behaviour.

I think they don’t understand that this whole economy of Black design did not exist before. It’s very, very new and none of us can afford to have this type of infighting. We all need to be aligned. We need to stay as allies across this because it’s still a very new incubation. In that earlier era when things felt a lot purer, everyone was very happy to find other skilled and talented people who had similar interests and relatively similar backgrounds. I’m still super hopeful for the future, it’s about ensuring we support each other and critique each other in the right way. If we all don’t do well, no one does well, because there’s no proof of concept that you can have POC owned brands existing in the world of art, existing and scaling.

TBI You know what it makes me think about? I don’t know if it’s controversial, I mean we’re speaking freely right now, but you know when they did that Pyer Moss exposé. It was just like, ‘Here’s this designer that’s got all of this investment, but where is the support?’ In terms of you can give someone all of this investment and then be like, ‘Go run with it.’ But where are the systems in place that help this young Black designer that you’re tapping into to turn that into a million- dollar company? There’s a difference between giving someone money and actually being like, ‘Okay, I’m actually going to support you for this process and maybe you shouldn’t spend 10K on seeing if a button works,’ or whatever. I’m just saying this figuratively.

SR You’re right, it’s the idea of Black fashion and money being the same thing – that poisoned the well a bit and I think we’re still recovering from some of that now. You do get a moment where you have a designer who’s got a lot of promise who is young, but they’re not getting the type of support that they need and naturally, mistakes get made. It shouldn’t be a case where such mistakes need to happen as some type of public lynching. It’s normal for people to make mistakes in business when they’re young. It’s not normal for us to crucify one another for commissions. It’s very strange behaviour.

TBI It’s just about finding the balance. You can call someone out on actions that maybe weren’t the best decisions. This is not me being like, ‘Woe is me, if you are a Black creative you have to have this special cushion under you,’ but I don’t know, it’s just an interesting one when I think about how you were mentioning the idea of solidarity. Do you feel pressure from life? Is it the community? Is it fashion?

SR I used to feel more of a pressure when we were tied to a schedule of runway shows because that is something that you assumed you had to partake in, but it wasn’t necessarily something that I wanted to do forever. I felt then, at certain points, there was pressure to continue to show in that format. But letting go of that enables you to focus on what the brand and the community actually need. It’s not to necessarily compete with huge conglomerates, because as soon as you start getting into serious runway shows where you’re spending hundreds of thousands on each show, which is what we were doing, you get a jolt and a boost and some growth from it and everyone claps and it’s very beautiful. But at the same time, as a brand owner, what’s more important: A glossy show or opening stores and employing people I want to see in the stores? What’s more important: A glossy show or ensuring there’s career growth for my internal team with that money? What’s more important: Working on the price points and getting them more competitive so people can get the clothes, or spending loads of money on a fancy show? So I think you have to be willing to make critical decisions and bold decisions. I started A-COLD-WALL* to not really conform with what I saw. So, taking it away from the shows felt like the most A-COLD-WALL* thing I could do. It’s not just supposed to join the track and join the cycle, it’s supposed to find a new way of doing things and that’s where it will thrive. I think we’ve got to think where we can be nimble and agile as smaller entities, as designers and more flexible teams to find new pathways which aren’t as cemented as the storied houses. We can’t copy them. We need to make new things, new ways of communicating and new ways of selling product. My mind is always like, ‘Okay if everyone’s gone left, let’s go right instead.’ That’s where the space is. In terms of that pressure point, I don’t feel it anymore. I don’t feel pressured in the same way. I put pressure on myself to do great work and to not get comfortable. I put pressure to not get distracted by success, but that’s it.

TBI So you know in terms of the transition between A-COLD- WALL* and [your progressive design studio] SR_A, what was that turning point where you were like, ‘Okay, I need to transition this into something that’s bigger than fashion?’

SR We’d just done this incredible first show in Milan and I had a really strong perspective of, ‘This is what I want A-COLD-WALL* to say if we’re going to do runway.’ And then we went into Covid for six seasons and the whole world changed. We had to decide how we were going to respond to that. It seemed like a really good reason to not spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on shows and to put that into brand development, community and the right type of hires. So we totally restructured in Covid and it just felt bold. I could feel in my spirit it was feeling too samey. It was getting a bit too stable, a bit too run-of- the-mill. I don’t want that, I need to stay stimulated and I want to chase what’s next. Then it’s funny because the same year that happened is the year that I started SR_A. I started SR_A in September 2019 after winning the Serpentine Design Prize. With that prize, I won 100K and I put all of the money into it, took a new studio space and started producing sculptures. I pitched my heart out to LVMH to get some deals and some opportunities to work with them. I wanted to adjust to having a really quick and nimble startup, whilst also having one startup which was starting to mature. I wanted to take some of the learnings and apply them to SR_A in terms of efficiency and working end-to-end with clients. I wanted to stay close to the ground which is why SR_A still really stimulates me. With SR_A, I want to tell stories around craft, material, hand-dyeing, engineering, and precious minerals. It’s a slightly different perspective but it all falls under product. That’s what I’m obsessed with, I’m obsessed with garments and I’m obsessed with product. I’ve been painting quietly for about five years and making furniture for around the same amount of time. It’s only over the past few years I started to show bits and pieces and it’s great that there’s been a demand from White Cube, Friedman Benda and from these global galleries. That’s worked in a really organic way, I expected nothing to come of that as it was just an outlet. I’m grateful that people want to spend time looking into that outlet.

TBI I want to quickly touch on the Black British Artist Grants Program that you founded in 2020. Talk me through the process of wanting to start that. How has it been so far and have there been any challenges getting that off the ground?

SR Before we started it I had this loose idea of, ‘What is a system I can put together that will help allocate a portion of the profits that SR_A and A-COLD-WALL* make to ensure that the next generation of talents get their shot and their window?’ I was Tweeting more than I do now. I was talking publicly about what didn’t exist in Black British communities surrounding the arts. I just deleted the Tweets and I was like, ‘Okay, well you need to make something then, don’t just turn into a keyboard warrior online and moan about Black Britain and not do anything when you have the capability to put a raw concept together.’ We decided to launch it in the same year that we had Covid and George Floyd which meant that there was a lot of organic press that went into the topic of Black voices and into economic sustenance or relief. Now, we’ve reached 50 people by year four, we’ve done collaborative launches with [American artist] Daniel Arsham who helped put some funding together for it, and we’ve had [fashion designer] Grace Wales Bonner come on as one of the guest advisors last year. The whole point was to have a really well respected group of institutions be part of the selection process to validate the talents coming through, so they could then use that validation to assist with their own commercial or professional endeavours. So we do have RCA, Westminster University, The Design Museum, The British Fashion Council, V&A Museum and The King’s Foundation. There’s a really solid base of industry leaders who make their selections, but I literally work on that end-to-end. I’ve made a thing to not really involve my team in it too much. Usually, we get about 1,500 to 2,000 applicants a year and I will literally just sit there, Toni, and go through every single one, make my shortlist, then speak to my team. I don’t need to see their business plan. It’s if they’ve got the talent, they’re making the work and they have a good public record in terms of how they are with people.

TBI My last two questions are about things coming up next for you, can you tell us a little something? You can read this all through so don’t worry in case you say something spicy top secret, we won’t leak it don’t worry.

SR Much appreciated! I feel really excited about A-COLD- WALL* and what it’s about to do next. Speaking in code x, it’s maturing into this next chapter which is really exciting and it means that the core team are going to be empowered further and I’m going to be their spirit guiding them through this journey. I think you’re going to see a bit more elasticity in terms of how the brand communicates and how it shows product and who it talks to, which I’m really excited for. By the time this is in print, it will already be out, but there’s a new Converse sneaker which is releasing very soon. Beyond that, we’re looking at showrooms and opening new stores across Asia which is super exciting. We’re going to be focusing less on collaborations, we want to focus more on inline because we’ve done like 12 Nike shoes. There’s going to be much more development of getting the inline product to a much more radical place. We scaled and have a stable product cycle but I want to start seeing more radical products come from the design team and I’m working on that with them. For SR_A, this year is going to be a really strong year. Last year was great as well, but we have Beats partnerships running, LVMH partnerships and products running. I think SR_A will make a lot more sense to people by the end of this year as well. There’s a lot more to come this year.

TBI That was the most obscurely answered question. It said so much but also gave away so little, but I understand because of the position that you’re in. Then my last question, which is kind of a heavy one: What do you hope your legacy will be?

SR Oh I think about this a lot, I think about my gravestone all the time.

TBI Oh my God! All right, Samuel.

SR It’s probably too dark, innit?

TBI [Laughs] Too dark, babe.

SR It’s probably the most fashion thing I’ve said the whole call [laughs]

TBI [Laughs] Literally. The most dramatic thing you’ve said.

SR I want to ensure that, amongst all of the hyper-expressive voices that come and go, I’m seen as a pillar of stability to show that we can have anchors within the Black British fashion community that are also on the global world stage in fashion and in the arts. I think that’s what I’d like my legacy to be. For people to see the brick-and-mortar that’s being laid slab by slab, layer by layer. You know, you don’t build on sand, you build on solid ground and you layer that again and again and again.

TBI Based on our conversation I think you’re already on your way to building that Samuel Ross – your SR_A, A-COLD-WALL* empire. Obviously, we know each other on a personal level too, but I feel inspired because of how you are such a multi-hyphenate. I feel like I’ve praised you throughout this whole interview, but it’s only right.

SR It’s all actually possible because I literally remember when I started A-COLD-WALL*, after leaving working for DONDA and for V, I moved back to a spare room in my mum’s house in Wellingborough. I had the same view I had as a teenager growing up and it’s just council estate and people doing drugs and getting high in the alley. Literally, that was my view for pretty much all of my childhood, all my formative years, directly out the window. That’s where the palette for A-COLD- WALL* came from. I remember looking out that window thinking, ‘If this is what I have to work with to tell a story, then I will work with what I have.’ I remember sitting in my teenage bedroom writing a dissertation on A-COLD-WALL* and drawing out all of the logos and going through all the names. To then see global stores across the world and all that’s come about in the last decade, it’s like, ‘If I can do it from the middle of nowhere in the UK, anyone can do it. It can be done.’ It’s just a case of diligence – and self-critique is a big one, people can get quite happy quite quickly. You can’t get drunk on your own ideas. You have to stay really critical about what you’re producing. One thing we haven’t touched on which is super important as I know you know, is the beauty of the POC connection and it being so key to our success. Whether that’s Black-British plus African-American or South-Asian plus Black-British. That whole world of POC talent and being able to support one another is huge. And that is probably one of the most gratifying elements of being in this space, is being able to speak and communicate and bond with other people of colour who come from other ilks and other races, but know what it’s like to be an outlier. But then being able to economically support one another and collaborate with one another is so fulfilling.

TBI No, it’s great and it’s so invaluable. Even just the idea of being able to put money back into community, even when I say it my mind’s racing thinking about what I can do as a Black Editor-in- Chief in London, a Black woman. So it’s important to keep this conversation going. I commend you because sometimes when you have conversations people want to kind of touch on the highs and the highs, they need to also remember that the conversation about representation never, ever stops. When you stop getting articles that say ‘The first person to do this and the first…’ That’s when we know we’ve got somewhere. When these article titles turn into, ‘Oh, this person’s done this because they’ve just done it.’ Not because they’re the first, you know? But Samuel, thank you. Love you.

SR Peace.

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